Press Conference in Bonn by Three Released Political Prisoners - Translation

By Catherine A. Fitzpatrick

Here's some English-language excerpts from the press conference yesterday in Germany by three of the 16 prisoners released in the trade between Russia, the US, and Germany.

Here's the full YouTube recording from DW Russian Service in Russian.

And here's the Russian original of remarks by Ilya Yashin.

I've made a quick chatGPT translation and fixed it up a bit, I will swing back later to do some more work and the others.

But I want to emphasize that if you are going to dunk on these people just released from some of Russia's worst hellholes, at least read the full transcript.

And for me, the operative moment here is that while saying that he wishes to go back to Russia and never wanted to leave (Kara-Murza and Oleg Orlov say the same thing), he recognizes -- as it was told him (presumably by Western government officials involved in the trade) that if he wanted to see more such trades take place, he needed to remain abroad. I wonder who the brain was at State who thought up that excellent point to drum into the heads of these martyrs. As you may know, I have long had the highly unpopular opinion that you should not sacrifice yourself for the movement and return to Russia to certain arrest, or refuse to leave Russia, or act in Russia in such a way as to assure arrest. The idea that there is some constituency of ordinary Russians who appreciate this sacrifice as "authentic" and accept nothing less strikes me as patronizing to ordinary Russians -- and ignorant of their actual "kitchen table" concerns.

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Ilya Yashin, released from a labor colony as part of a major prisoner exchange between Russia and Western countries, spoke at a press conference in Bonn. He stated that he considers his exchange to be an illegal expulsion from Russia and revealed that Deputy Aleksey Gorinov and Alexey Navalny's ally Daniil Kholodny were on the exchange list, but they were removed at the last minute. Yashin said he wants to return to Russia, but he was made to understand that if he does, there will be no further prisoner exchanges.

I understand the very complex ethical dilemma faced by Chancellor Scholz and the entire German government. I told him that I fully understand the difficult situation he found himself in when making the decision to release a murderer—a person who openly gunned down and killed another person in the center of a European capital and received a life sentence. I understand what a difficult dilemma this is. In exchange for the release of one murderer, a dozen and a half innocent people who committed no crimes were freed. This is a complicated dilemma, also because, of course, it motivates Putin to take new hostages. Of course, it motivates Putin to increase the number of political prisoners. I understand this perfectly. I think that Chancellor Scholz understands this too, and the critics who are tearing him apart in the media today also understand this perfectly. But I am convinced that regardless of the reaction, regardless of the line of conduct by Western authorities, Putin would still continue to take hostages. Because dictators always do this—dictators always take hostages and publicly torture them, exploiting the sense of guilt and humanitarian feelings of their opponents, the leaders of other countries who behave in a civilized manner. Tyrants and dictators always torture people, and Putin also demonstratively tortures people; he will do this regardless of whether Western governments save these people or ignore them. Nevertheless, it is hard to realize that you were released because a murderer was released—it's difficult. It’s a great emotional burden.

I admit that I have a heavy burden on my soul because my comrades and many political prisoners remain behind bars. According to Memorial Society, there are more than a thousand political prisoners in Russia today. Including people who should have been sitting at this table instead of me. This is Aleksey Gorinov, my colleague from the Krasnoselsky District Council. A deputy of respectable age, who is missing part of a lung, who is being tortured in the Vladimir colony where Navalny was held, shuttling between a punishment cell and the infirmary. I know the state he is in; he is a very brave person, he never complains, he never asks for any mercy, any leniency. But I know perfectly well what physical and emotional state he is in.

Igor Baryshnikov should have been sitting here—a person who received a monstrous sentence for an anti-war speech. A person who suffers from cancer. A person who is literally dying in prison and who, of course, needs to be rescued and saved.

Maria Ponomarenko, a journalist who is being bullied behind bars, should have been sitting here. Mikhail Kriger should have been sitting here. Navalny's lawyer, Daniil Kholodny, who is held as a hostage, should have been sitting here. They all should have been sitting at this table. These are the people whose release both I and my comrades requested, we begged, we called for their release. These are the people who need to be freed from prison.

At the same time, from the first day behind bars, I said that I was not ready for any exchanges. I publicly asked not to include me in any exchange lists. This was my public, absolutely clear, absolutely sincere, and conscious position. I refused to leave Russia under threat of arrest, seeing myself as a Russian politician, a Russian patriot, and a citizen of Russia, whose place is in Russia. Even if it is in prison, but in Russia. I understood my imprisonment not only as an anti-war struggle, not only as a fight against the aggressive war unleashed by Putin, but as a struggle for my right to live in my country, as a fight for the right to engage in independent politics in my country, as a fight for the right to say what I deem necessary, what I think in my own country. This was my struggle, and I turned every trial into a political platform, defending my right to live and work in my own country. I fought to the last—and this is true—I fought to the last day for my right to stay in Russia.

A few days before the exchange, the head of the colony in Safonovo, near Smolensk, came to me and offered me to write a petition for pardon. I said that I would not write a petition for pardon because I do not consider it possible for me to appeal to President Putin, whom I consider a war criminal, whom I consider a tyrant, whom I consider a murderer. I will not ask for any mercy from this person, who, in fact, put me in prison.

The next day, the leadership of the Federal Penitentiary Service in the Smolensk region also came to me and continued to try to persuade me that I should write a petition for pardon, that I should appeal to Putin. This, of course, seemed strange, but it already hinted that some diplomatic game was taking place. And I, of course, began to guess what was happening and categorically refused to sign any petitions for pardon—with or without an admission of guilt. I stated absolutely clearly and unequivocally that I would never ask for any mercy from a person whom I consider a murderer and a tyrant, whom I consider an enemy of my country. When I was taken to Lefortovo, it was also a special operation. I was sitting in my cell, an officer came in from behind and asked me to go to the head of the colony's office. And right on the way, they loaded me into a police van and literally, in just a prison uniform without any belongings, they took me by special convoy to Moscow.

And when I realized that I was in Lefortovo, literally a day before the exchange, when the Lefortovo staff began to say what was happening, when it became clear that an exchange was taking place, I addressed a written statement to the head of the Lefortovo Pre-trial Detention Center. Here it is; I will read it: "To the Head of the Federal Penitentiary Service Investigation Isolation Prison No. 2 in Russia from convict Ilya Valeryevich Yashin. Statement. The Constitution of Russia prohibits the expulsion of citizens of the Russian Federation from Russia without their consent. Being a citizen of the Russian Federation, I hereby declare that I do not consent to being expelled from Russia. I insist on my legal right to remain on the territory of the country in which I was born." This is the document that made my expulsion from Russia completely illegal. What happened to me on the first day, I do not consider an exchange. I regard this event as an illegal expulsion from Russia against my will.

I will be honest. I'll say it as it is: what I want most now is to return home. The first desire, when I was in Ankara, when I was in Germany, was to immediately go to the airport, buy a ticket, and return to Russia. This is sincere, and the FSB officers understood it perfectly. The convoy representing the FSB special forces who accompanied me said literally the following on farewell: "Of course, you can return to Russia, like Navalny. You will be arrested like Navalny. And you will end your days the same way as Navalny."

But that's not the worst thing. The worst thing is that it was made absolutely clear to me that my return would preclude any exchanges of political prisoners in the foreseeable future. It was made absolutely clear to me that my return to Russia would radically strengthen the positions of those opponents of the exchange who are now saying that Chancellor Scholz made a mistake. Who say that murderers should not be released. And of course, they have arguments. If I return to Russia, tomorrow they will say that we released a murderer, and Yashin, barely out of Putin's prison, returned behind bars again, nullifying the negotiators' efforts. And, of course, this sharply reduces the chances of negotiations, the exchange of prisoners in the near future. I understand this perfectly.

I understand perfectly that Aleksey Gorinov, who until the last moment was on the exchange list, I know that he was on the exchange list, and Daniil Kholodny, who was until the last moment—and at the last moment they were crossed off the list. They remain as hostages. They are tortured because they are hostages. I understand perfectly well that I am largely responsible for the fate of my comrades. And this is unbearable. From an emotional point of view, it is simply unbearable. And this intrigue, this manipulation arranged by the Kremlin is truly an absolutely Jesuitical mockery.

When a person who says: "I will not leave my country" is taken and thrown out of the country in violation of all laws, in violation of all norms, in violation of all rules. And those people who really need to be pulled out, and who really should be sitting at this table, who have serious health problems, who can die in prison—they are left and continue to be tortured. This is unbearable. I understand that my decisions should not be impulsive. I understand that now my efforts should be directed at the release of Gorinov, Baryshnikov, Ponomarenko, Kriger, and many other political prisoners. As well as for political amnesty to be carried out in Russia, for all political prisoners to be released.

And yet I want to say that I will never reconcile with the role of an emigrant. My goal is to return to Russia. I am a citizen of Russia, I am a Russian politician, I am a Russian patriot. My goal is a free and happy Russia.

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Radio Liberty provides a transcript of the press conference. The time is indicated in Central European Time.

18:45 - Andrei Pivovarov begins. He thanks Germany and all parties involved in preparing the prisoner exchange. He mentions that the exchange saved many prisoners from the prospect of dying in prison.

• Do not associate people in Russia with the policies it conducts. Many Russian citizens, who may not be visible, do not agree with it. I think it is extremely important that the propaganda worldview that pours over Russians—"we are in a besieged fortress, surrounded by enemies"—begins to crumble. I would like to appeal to Western countries to turn to the people in Russia, not to the authorities, and extend a hand to them. They should ease the pressure on Russians, for example, by allowing educational visas for young people, so that Russians can see that there are no enemies here, as they are shown daily on TV, but people just like them. These steps would help everyone.

From friends in Russia, I have heard that we must wait for something to change. It seems to me that our task is not to wait but to act, to bring hope to those under pressure. I, and all those who are now free, will not wait but will do everything possible so that everyone who is still behind bars will be released.

18:55 - Vladimir Kara-Murza also begins by thanking Germany and all parties involved in the exchange. He reminded everyone that thanks to Germany's efforts, three Russian prisoners of conscience were freed: Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Natan Sharansky, and Mikhail Khodorkovsky.

• In our country, there are at least hundreds of people, by the most conservative estimates, who are imprisoned solely because of their political views, because they disagree with Putin's policies, and because they are against the war in Ukraine. Do not believe Kremlin propaganda that claims all Russians support Putin: there are many opposition Russians. Do not confuse Putin's regime with Russia.

19:00 - For a pardon decision, a petition must be submitted. Ilya Yashin and I categorically refused to write any petitions to Vladimir Putin, and yet we are here.

Article 61 of the Constitution explicitly prohibits the expulsion of Russian citizens from its territory without their consent. No one asked for our consent. We were taken out of prison, put on a plane, and sent to Ankara.

Finally, according to the rules, a foreign passport is necessary to cross the border - we were promised until the very last moment that they would issue them to us, but we don’t have them. We entered Germany with ordinary internal Russian passports (Kara-Murza shows the passport), which don’t even have a word in Latin script. At Cologne Bonn Airport, a special translator explained to the border guards what was written in them. "They cannot imprison you legally, nor can they free you legally. It’s an amusing state; you won’t get bored," (Kara-Murza quotes the memoirs of Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovsky).

19:05 - When we were flying to Ankara, each of us had our own assigned FSB officer. When our plane took off, “mine” said, “Look, this is the last time you’ll see your homeland.” I replied: I know for sure that all of us will definitely return to Russia, and the day will come when it becomes a free, civilized European country. Let's do everything we can to bring that day closer.

19:10 - Ilya Yashin says that Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Germany faced a complex ethical dilemma in preparing the exchange when they were required to release a murderer [Vadim Krasikov] in exchange for a dozen innocent people, and that this may motivate Vladimir Putin to imprison more people on political grounds.

• To realize that you have been freed because a murderer was freed is emotionally very difficult.

Yashin mentions other political prisoners who remain in Russian jails: Alexei Gorinov, Igor Baryshnikov, Maria Ponomarenko, and Alexei Navalny's lawyers. He states that Gorinov and Baryshnikov are seriously ill, and he considers their detention in Russian zones without medical assistance to be intentional infliction of suffering.

19:15 - From the first day behind bars, I said that I would not agree to any exchange and refused to be included in any exchange lists. I am a Russian politician and have always believed that my place is in Russia, even in prison—but in Russia. I viewed my imprisonment as a struggle for my right to live and work in my country. A few days before the exchange, the prison warden suggested I write a petition for clemency; I refused. The next day, the leadership of the FSIN in the Smolensk region tried to persuade me. I said that I would never ask for mercy from the person [Russian President Vladimir Putin - RS], whom I consider a murderer, a tyrant, and an enemy of my country. While in Lefortovo, I wrote a statement to the head stating that I do not consent to being expelled from Russia. My expulsion is completely illegal. What happened to me on August 1, I consider not an exchange but an unlawful deportation.

To be honest, as soon as I found myself here, my first thought was to buy a plane ticket back to Russia! But I was made to understand that if I return to Russia, it will rule out any further exchanges of political prisoners.

I know that Alexei Gorinov and Daniil Kholodny were on the exchange lists, but they were crossed out at the last moment, and they remain hostages.

Yashin declares that he will never reconcile with the role of an emigrant and will devote his life to returning to a free, peaceful, and prosperous Russia.

19:25 Questions Begin from Press Representatives

A journalist from the German public television station ZDF asks Vladimir Kara-Murza:

• Did you receive a pardon from President Putin? Does this mean you can return to Russia?

Kara-Murza: The legal procedure does indeed stipulate that a convict can write a pardon request to the president. Last Tuesday, I was taken out of my cell, brought into an office, and given a blank sheet of paper along with a sample pardon request, which mentioned an admission of guilt and remorse. I replied that I would not write it because, firstly, I do not consider Putin the legitimate president of my country, and secondly, I do not admit guilt and do not consider myself guilty.

And on the night from Saturday to Sunday, I was woken up at three in the morning, given 20 minutes to pack my things, and taken in handcuffs to the airport, then put on a plane to Moscow. Nothing was explained to me or the other prisoners, and some even thought that we were all gathered together to be executed. So, I did not request a pardon.

As I said, the FSB officer accompanying me told me that I would never return to Russia, but I replied that, as a historian by education, I do not just believe but know that I will return, and it will be a free country.

Journalist: Do you know how the selection process for prisoners in exchange took place?

Kara-Murza: We, probably all three of us, don't know anything. I was completely sure that I would die in prison and never see my wife or children again. I only started to understand what was happening yesterday morning when I was taken out of Lefortovo, put on a bus, and there I saw Andrey [points to Pivovarov] accompanied by an FSB officer, and then Ilya [Yashin] with his FSB officer. Then there was Oleg Orlov from Memorial, the Radio Free Europe journalist Alsu Kurmasheva... We didn’t even know that an exchange was being prepared, let alone how candidates were selected.

19:40 A question is posed by a correspondent of the Russian Service of the BBC:

• You mentioned that you were taken to Germany without foreign passports. What status will you have in Germany and the EU? Will you be issued something akin to Nansen passports? Will you be granted political asylum? How will this be legally arranged, considering bureaucracy is a significant part of our lives?

Yashin (laughing): That's your life, not ours! When there is political will, it prevails over any bureaucratic obstacles. I have no valid documents at all—“my whiskers and tail are my documents.” [Line from Russian cartoon.] We did ask this question to the representatives of the German Foreign Ministry, and they acknowledged that the situation is extraordinary and promised to come up with something. We don't know exactly what yet. At least, they promised not to arrest us or deport us as illegal immigrants.

Pivovarov: It’s funny that each convict, after being released, should have a release certificate. They showed it to us but didn’t give it to anyone.

Kara-Murza: A day before the release, we were photographed for this certificate. Then the head of the Lefortovo prison's special department came and showed it to me. It stated that I, Full Name, convicted under certain articles for 25 years, was being released based on the presidential decree number... - no number, just a blank! - about the pardon from... - no date, just a blank! - 2024. Released to go to my place of residence: Moscow, Ovchinnikovskaya Embankment - my home address. As you can see, I am not in Moscow and not on Ovchinnikovskaya Embankment. We asked when we would be given these certificates, and they said, "Don’t worry, they will give them to you on the plane." They didn’t give them. This, again, raises questions about the legality of everything that happened to us.

I hope that the governments of Germany and other countries where people like us find themselves against their will, without valid documents, will find ways to grant us legal residency status.

20:04 A journalist asks about their physical and mental well-being.

Yashin: Right after arriving in Germany, we were taken to a hospital to check our health. This morning, a whole team of doctors visited each of us and solemnly informed us that we all have a vitamin D deficiency! (laughs) It’s not surprising, considering we all haven’t seen the sun for a long time; we were all on a closed regimen. But overall, we are fine.

Your physical condition behind bars largely depends on your inner emotional state, on how well you hold together psychologically. None of us had problems with this. When you know you are on the side of truth, it gives you a lot of strength. A huge source of strength was the letters from those who supported us - they gave me energy and health.

Pivovarov: I agree. When you know you are right, it gives you strength. You know you are right, and you know you will be free. You do sports even in the colony, and even the guards and administration treat you differently when they see that you hold on, that you don’t despair, and don’t smoke cigarette after cigarette.

Kara-Murza: I’m not in the habit of complaining. But I think it's important to say that many of our colleagues and compatriots remain in Putin's prisons and colonies solely because of their beliefs. They are subjected to physical and psychological torture. Prolonged solitary confinement, for example, is officially considered by the UN as torture. "Prolonged" according to the UN is considered to be more than 15 days. I spent 10 months in solitary. The same thing was done to Ilya and Andrey. Alexei Navalny was in solitary confinement for months—in a 2-by-3-meter closet, with no communication and no chance to go outside.

Another traditional torture, from the Soviet, Stalinist times, is to put pressure not only on the arrested person but also on their family. In two and a half years, I was able to speak with my family only once. They intentionally hurt not only us but also our families. They prohibit going to church. It's a monstrous hypocrisy: Putin’s regime talks about protecting family and traditional values, but it forbids calling children and going to church. And this applies to hundreds more of our compatriots who are now imprisoned. But I agree with Ilya: knowing that you are right, and they are not, is very encouraging.

Letters are very supportive. I want to appeal to everyone in Russia and abroad: write letters to political prisoners. Paper letters, electronic letters, there are all the possibilities for this now. You cannot imagine how much light and warmth is given by this piece of paper handed to you by the guard through the food slot in the cell door.

20:25 A question is asked by a Radio Liberty journalist:

The first question is for Ilya Yashin: In the first photos after your release, you were in prison clothes, while others were in civilian clothes. What was the reason for this? Secondly, to everyone: Could Alexei Navalny be sitting at this table under certain conditions?

Yashin: As for the prison clothes, the reason is simple: I just didn’t have any other clothes. I wasn't given the opportunity to take my clothes, which were stored in the colony's warehouse. They took me out of the colony in this garb under escort, then transferred me to Lefortovo, and later put me on a plane. The conditions were different; some people were given the opportunity to pack their things and change, but I was not. It’s not significant.

Regarding Alexei Navalny, he should not be here; he should be in Russia. He should be participating in the presidential elections, leading the country, building a beautiful future Russia, being part of his people, living a long and fruitful life, bringing joy to his parents, wife, and children. That’s where Navalny should be, and where all of us should be. The fact that Navalny is not with us is a crime of Vladimir Putin, who bears direct responsibility for his murder.

Kara-Murza: To the first part of the question - when I saw Ilya in prison clothes on the bus at the airport, I envied him: I was released in sweatpants and a tank top, practically in my underwear. In Lefortovo, they confiscated my prison uniform, leaving me only with these semi-sweatpants, a tank top, and plastic slippers I wore to the shower. The officer confiscating the uniform asked if I had any civilian clothes. I replied, "Look, I’m serving a 25-year sentence; why do I need civilian clothes—to go to the theater?" And so, I arrived through Ankara in Bonn in underwear, a tank top, and plastic slippers. Thanks to colleagues here who provided me with decent pants and a shirt. Everyone was indeed dressed differently; we're only now beginning to look somewhat presentable.

And now, something serious about Alexei. What happened to Navalny, I think, clearly and frighteningly shows that what the media calls "prisoner exchange" is not an exchange, but a rescue of human lives. It’s hard for me not to think that if certain processes were faster if this understanding were clearer, including here in Germany, if the German government had to overcome less resistance in the case of Putin’s hitman Krasikov, perhaps Alexei would be alive and free.

It’s very important for this to be said: Vladimir Putin bears personal responsibility for the murder of Alexei Navalny, just as he bears personal responsibility for the murder of Boris Nemtsov. It is no longer possible to say that Putin cannot be accused of this. I believe that this is the most important issue that the governments of the EU countries must now take upon themselves, to complete all that is necessary to save the lives of those who can still be saved. Because, as you see, this regime, until its very end, will act very cruelly and meanly.

20:40 Journalists were curious about the next steps and plans for the released opposition members.

Yashin: After being released, it's crucial to regroup and think about the future. For now, we are focusing on settling our current situation and taking the necessary steps to understand what happened to us legally and what possibilities lie ahead. We are here, in freedom, which in itself is a great victory. We'll be assessing the landscape and strategizing for the future, especially on how we can support our colleagues still imprisoned and what impact we can have from outside Russia.

Pivovarov: We want to find ways to continue our activism and support democracy in Russia. Though we've been forced out of the country, we remain committed to our mission. We plan to work with international human rights organizations, speak out, and keep drawing attention to the injustices happening under Putin's regime. We hope to engage more people worldwide in our cause, helping them understand the dire situation in Russia.

Kara-Murza: We know we are in a unique position now, outside the clutches of a repressive government. Our primary goal is to use our freedom to support those who are not free. We must continue to be a voice for the voiceless, to hold Putin accountable for the crimes committed against his people, and to stand up for democratic values. We have to continue our work with even more determination. We are not abandoning our cause; we are only changing the battlefield. We will fight from here, and we will return to a free Russia.