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10/25/2005

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Delphi

I have to agree with 100% of what you've written above.

I need not add much more as you've effectively stated most of my feelings on the matter as well.

As far as Huns and the other apologists go, they will sometimes claim to not be in the group, yet its VERY obvious, especially when you see the smug, self-promoted boy genius Huns standing around at a celebration the likes of that which we see in the posted pictures, that he is involved, always has been involved, and operates as a damage control pointman on the forums. Although this time he seems to have stayed a bit more reserved. I am wondering what that is all about. Mayhap he realizes that he better steer clear of this one, lest he fall from grace with his Linden buddies.

Now the Californian anarchist nigh on illiterate Mulch Ennui (what a fitting last name indeed) has taken on a role as Minister of Propaganda, using all kinds of OBVIOUS smoke and mirrors stunts to try and divert attention away from the fact that these children have a LONG history of many, many, homophobic, racist, anti-furry, griefing incidents. LONG before his ass ever set foot in SL - or maybe not... hmmm...

I have some advice for you Mulch, go join W-hat. You can hang out with some other societal malcontents, ones who think that the post-modernist French philosphers are to be revered as visionaries. You'll fit right in. A bunch of twats who think they're smarter than everyone else, when in reality, they just now how to work the system, and avoid personal responsibilty. THAT is their forte'. The problem is, the more times the try to get away with it, the more people will become aware of their schemes, and more pressure will be placed upon them and LL.

Mulch, your blog sucks, by the way. Bristling with Bolshevik bullshit and tough-guy "don't be suprised when you find out I can handle myself" bravado.

Hint: People who "can handle themselves" don't need to broadcast that "fact", nor do they need to tell the world how cool they are for being banned from game boards.

Now then, the Lindens need to get their shit together on this issue.
Breaking object to object scripts is ridiculous AND it doesn't really prevent global attacks, as is being detailed over on the SL general forums in the thread about the subject.

Thanks LL, not only do you bend over and spread YOUR cheeks for W-Hatters, you force US to as well. Absolutely mind-boggling.

TAKE CARE OF THIS ISSUE WITHOUT FUCKING THE POPULATION OVER MORE THAN THEY ALREADY HAVE BEEN BY THESE GRIEFING ASSHOLES!

Cubey

"The constant call for innocence, rights, and freedoms for W-Hatters utterly overlooks the rights and freedoms that are abridged when they act against any or all of us."

Yes. Well put.

Mulch Ennui

Originally Posted on Broken Windows Comments:
"I am not gonna debate you in your comments section all day. "

And I'm certainly not gonna get into the weird game of debating or dignifying your weird little alts on the comments section of your blog either Prok, I mean Random, I mean "Delphi."

Bizarre! You are like a runaway train loaded full of warped.

Prokofy Neva

? I'm not Delphi, I don't have any idea who Delphi is. My alts are known because they have the same land groups and the same blog on the profile, duh.

While good liberals want to do the right thing and not use guilt-by-association so as to punish the innocent, you do have to face down these Bolshevik types who use this classic deniability technique where they constantly perpetrate misdeeds and then look around and say "who, me?" or "oh, that was just one of our young 'uns." We're all SO past that now, and even you get it.

The next step then becomes: how do you deal with sympathizers, supporters, and victory-dancers? And my answer to that is boot and ban if you are a resident. With Lindens, I think it would be more appropriate to judge each individual case and look at criminal action. But like the FBI, they should have a profile going now that shows the kinds of groups, names, etc. that these people always take, it's become a pattern now.

iwy birdy

"The constant call for innocence, rights, and freedoms for W-Hatters utterly overlooks the rights and freedoms that are abridged when they act against any or all of us."

Dead right.

juro kothari

In this case, with W-Hat's history, I would disband the group and perma-ban all of them - but that's probably why I'm not running things.

Simone

Let me get a few things straight here, and forgive my ignorance; I'm not college educated. What little education I do have is from reading.

That being said, I want to know what LL's premise is here. ARE they a game? In which case, let's see a little more immediate reaction to issues when they arise, and a LOT more forethought to prevent this kind of thing. Or is LL's growing little experiment nothing more than a glorified Skinner box? I'd assume if it were, it's a very capitalistic Skinner box, and anything interfering with free trade would be removed post-haste...(RL advertisers don't want to deal with gangs and grafitti and people who destroy property in the real world, why the hell would they put up with it here?)

EverQuest, the massively popular online world with an active subscriber base of 500,000 plus people, encountered a very similar problem. A guild by the name of "Brotherhood of the Spider" attempted to monopolize and control the economy on a particular grid. Resistance against this thousand member-organization's tactics resulted in harassment intended to encourage opponent players, anyone not affiliated with their group, to stop playing. This guild of extortionists and griefers managed to achieve such a high level of control that they had locked down nearly every form of profitability. The developers' response was this: All members in a position of leadership were banned for a year. The ban was credit card, avatar, and IP. The entire organization was forcefully disbanded, and all remaining members /not found immediately guilty of policy violation/ were prevented from forming subsequent groups, or even associations with any other member, permanently. This went even so far as disallowing former members to join any guild that a single other member of the now defunct Brotherhood of the Spider had also joined. The good folks at EverQuest simply squashed the griefers, and their tentacles. There has been no repeat incident to my knowledge.

Not every member of the group was guilty. And I don't think that's the issue.

EQ went on to flourish despite this, I am sure in no small part due to their enthusiasm to demonstrate their desire to see the community as a whole flourish.

Interesting point brought to my attention by another player: time does not stop in the real world if you run out of money. But if LL pisses off the majority of players by refusing to deal with a handful of asshats in a sufficiently effective way to make the majority of it's customers happy with the sevice, money will indeed run out and SL will go 'dark'. (that means no electricity for those trying to read more into it than what's there.)

I'll attempt to quote Lord Byron here. Forgive if it is not thoroughly accurate. "All that is necessary for evil to flourish is for good men [and women, implied, you PC folks] to do nothing."

Prokofy Neva

Simone, your invocation of the Skinner Box as an analogy for SL is brilliant and scary, and gah, I have to think about that -- you could be right.

If it were a very much closed-box game, however, like a TSO or a WoW, they'd be able to eject a group like this more thoroughly. Even TSO was a lot slower in dealing with the SSG precisely because it's a social game relying a lot on the customer base to create the society and its entertainments and "custom content," as much as snotty SLers like to portray TSO as moronic skill-leveling grinds.

The more free you make a world, the more open it is to that kind of tentacled griefing that invokes its own freedom of assembly as its first weapon. I think the EQ response is very instructive.

We don't know what LL is doing, really, they haven't told us. We see that Something Awful, which used to be a group with these griefers in it, is no more. There's nothing called W-HAT per se. Other groups exist including one called Anti-Griefers claiming to be fighting griefing (just like the SSG used to) but themselves engaging in it -- this contains some of the victory dancers.

So it seems that LL might have disbanded groups -- or at least they fell apart after the avatars in them were banned.

EQ used the early Nuremberg notion of criminality of groups to kill off even members of groups who didn't have individual criminal liability -- but you can't go very far with that as Nuremberg itself didn't without using what Urizenus Sklar of the Herald has reminded is the most effective tool: government infilatration and manipulation of groups.

At the end of the day, however, as I indicated, the solution lies more in the direction of the quote about "all that is necessary is for good men to do nothing" problem. It's really more up to people in the society, not the government only, to cope with this destruction by themselves not accepting in, or expelling from their groups, those who engage in these activities. People shouldn't become so crippled by their need to allow freedom of expression and assembly in others to forget that those freedoms also include robust condemnation -- and civic action -- against those who would abridge those freedoms for others.

Simone

"People shouldn't become so crippled by their need to allow freedom of expression and assembly in others to forget that those freedoms also include robust condemnation -- and civic action -- against those who would abridge those freedoms for others."

*high fives*

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