Trotsky saluting, next to Lenin.
Oops, no more Trotsky!
Among the troublesome response to the Lazarus Divine sign griefing and land extortion problem is the tekkie-wiki notion of simply erasing offensive signs and people. Here's Hiro Pendragon again proposing a technical solution to a social problem.
Like Stalin used to say, "No person, no problem."
And he should know -- having gotten rid of LOTS of people -- that in fact when you get rid of people, you don't get rid of problems. In fact, what happens when you get rid of some people, some other people say, hey, wait a minute! Why did you eliminate that person? That person was valuable in some way -- if for no other reason than their inherent human dignity -- which all the great faiths and cultures of the world tell us is endowed in the human person.
Then it becomes necessary for the Dictator to eliminate those complainers about the others eliminated...the eliminate those who say, wait, why did you kill off those complainers...and remove them...remove those who write the histories of all of the preceding...well, before you know it, you have a WHOLE BUNCH of people you have to kill off, and that's why dictators like Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot always end up killing bunches. It never works to kill just one or 100 or 100,000.
Thanks to our new technology, however, these old pesky problems of dictators that used to lead to having to kill lots of people in the meat world - a tricky and cumbersome business largely because of the problem of what it takes to kill, bury, and disguise the graves of so many people -- are now removed. Now it's clean, effective, and anonymous. IP harvest, key-harvest, mute, eject, ban, and now -- for extra good measure -- erase even the textures, the objects, the footprints -- anything from the person whatsoever whom you hate to the point of obliteration.
In the Stalin era, the Communist propagandizes got adapt at doctoring photos. Trotsky would be in a news photo -- whoops, when Trotsky fell out of favour, he'd have to be airbrushed out. The Newseum has an entire exhibit just on this historical phenomenon, still continued in some oppressive countries today.
For these reasons -- because I do not think you convince a man because you have silenced him, or that you remove a problem because you remove a person -- I wouldn't be for banning Lazarus from the world. I believe he has made a grid-wide attack, he has disturbed the peace, and has interfered with the enjoyment of Second Life, through the transmission of offensive and objectionable content. Therefore his content should be removed, not obliterated, because it is wrongful. This application of the law will help him to know the limits on his actions required in a democratic and free society.
These kinds of subjective terms like "offensive" are built in to the Linden TOS already, so while I don't favour them in an idea world, if the Lindens have put them in their TOS in their wisdom, then they need to use them!
If they enforce them, Lazarus will have to remove his signs and sell his land at a normal price. Given their tinyness, they are only like able to be sold to other sign griefers or adsters, which wouldn't eliminate the problem. One hopes once they went to a normal price, people on the sim where they are located could buy them. And at least he would be forced to stop buying land and deploying signs. If he didn't stop, then he might eventually be banned from the world.
I wouldn't arbitrarily remove him from the game -- I wouldn't favour what Aimee Weber invokes (falsely and tendentiously) as some kind of unilateral extra-TOS act on the part of the Lindens. I favour them using the existing and perfectly adequate and capacious TOS terminology to do what needs to be done to rid the grid of this menace devaluing second lives and land. Aimee and others to whom Oyun Tuque turned for leadership on the sign issue disappointed him by too-narrowly and too-literally reading the word "transmission" to mean "broadcasts" as in television nor radio broadcasts. Yet we do no have television broadcast in SL in the sense of community TV (as distinct from tvs on one parcel seeing one video). Worldwide text broadcasts can only be run by the Lindens. Radio broadcasts to reach any sim are likely only run by the Lindens as well, though any parcel could voluntarily elect to tune into a radio stream upon which one person attempted to reach the whole SL audience.
Transmission means transmitting, passing, giving. When W-Hat put out grief balls that spread to every sim, rolling and replicating, that was transmission, even though it did not involve "TV broadcasting". Those were objects moving across sim boundaries. Each little ball took up X amount of space and there were a lot of them. That was transmission. Signs deployed across many sims on little squares of space are no different in character or in deployment than grief balls. They are transmitted, copied and pasted from sim to sim by a masterminded malicious intelligence. They constitute a global attack on the community of SL with undesirable spam.
People who keep harping on the concept of sign deployment as freedom of expression don't go behond one parcel or one sim in their minds. They can't grasp that transmission means that it is a global attack, because it takes on significant griefing scope affecting many all over the grid.
Would these same people advocate the endless transmission of grief balls if they didn't crash the grid, in the name of freedom of expression? I don't think so. They could understand, perhaps, with that analogy, the absurdity of letting one creator make millions of grief balls that spread everywhere and take up the view and the space, preventing everyone else from creating their things.
The Lindens need to respond to global attacks, disturbances of the peace, and interferences with the enjoyment of SL -- as well as any type of spamming of undesirable advertising content (as they themselves term it) by eliminating the source of that TOS violation -- urging the person to stop and take down his objectionable content, or removing it with their god-powers. They need to get at the source of the cancer, not mask it with mere pain-killers like erasure.
Not getting at the source of the TOS violation merely inspires the Divines of the world to find ever new and improved means to get to people where they live and bother them.
Indeed, it's the inchoate, unexamined, shared sense of peace and civility in the mainland when people can shared a view together even in an unorganized community that Lazarus Divine and others attack at its root when they spam with extortionist signs -- making people pay to keep that value of shared view and shared community they once had.
Therefore, those who would inflict this damage and even make people pay to avoid it -- like mobsters extracting protection money in a racket -- should be tackled at the root of their disruption, not merely treated with a bandaid -- for the sake of the world's integrity.
As with all narrow-minded, bloody-minded tekkie solutions to people problems -- the old "code is law" canard -- the idea of blanking out textures has many perhaps unintended and malicious consequences. Here are a few:
o if you remove the visuals of an object, you haven't removed its physics. An object still takes up space, and you could bump into it. What the erasure of the world would imply is either a disruption of physics, whereby you would make someone's object phantom when they didn't want it to be phantom, or a duality of physics, which would create two objects in space, one phantom for some people, another solid for others. Just imagine if a vehicle maker hated his competitor -- he could erase his content and never see it -- but would that impose a feature on that competitor's content? If so, that would constitute unwarranted intrusion into the creative rights the Lindens claim to promote.
o It's funny that people are willing to take to extremes the consequences of eliminating content from one person's land (even using the TOS) but they aren't willing to contemplate the extremes inherent in their solution of removing some of the content for some of the people some of the time; my right to make and object and deploy it in the world is then abridged by whatever hater can erase me and also tell all his friends in his little p2p circle to hate me and block me too. Erase Trend-Setters will get a hearing; those who are Erased will not.
o To blank out someone's texture, evidently you need to acquire the UUID, or unique identifier of it. That could throw any notion of creative property rights into turmoil. I could decide arbitrarily that someone is a griefer and a spammer, insist that I get their keyed coded item, and then copy it to sell it for my own profit. All their work baking or cooking or sauteing or whatever they call it with those textures will be for nought.
o The world will begin to lose its shared consensus, a fragile thing at best. I know when I stand on a sim I can say "look at that sunset" and everyone can see it because it is a Linden-made sunset. I can say "look at the beautiful build" or "look at the ugly build" and everyone can see it because it is "there" for everyone. When we make a world that is no longer "there" for everyone, we have become like Bishop Berkeley, and decided that just because we turned our back on something, it doesn't exist. This world of little magicians are like three-year-olds that think that peek-a-boo made the world go away and then get surprised when the Kitty whose tail they pulled comes and scratches them in the face.
o When the world breaks down in this way, the congolomerations of fuck-you hedonism cells do not make up a civilization, they make up viruses, and potentially warring principalities and fiefdoms, and atomized, disengaged people ripe for fascistic tendencies and currents of all types. Why? Because in the absence of a shared consensus voluntarily accessed and conceded by all, and even a shared, loose sense of governance (we all see the same build and we can all respect that it is there even as we might have different tastes), anyone who comes along with some Big Idea or Big Rumour or Big Lie and spread it endlessly without anyone having the space to be able to say "but that's a lie or that's merely a rumour or that's not a good idea".
You might think in an atomized world, the friction of everyone's little niche space itself with their Own Little Ideas will be enough fence against the Big Bad Idea but of course, once a selfish, arrogant nichist hides away in a niche, he loses any context or sense of judgement of himself, so that anyone who comes along can easily sway him -- because there is only his own judgement, in his own little empty niche-space to appeal to. No other checks or balances or other opinions need apply. That's why the first task of totalitarians has always been to cut off free media, cut off news sources, strikes at the bigger, consolidating ideas of religion or culture, and atomize people, particularly by playing on ethnic differences.
It's precisely for this reason that Goreans and others with fascistic and totalitarian notions of the organization of society love the idea of p2p, of keeping people in isolation, of niches, of removal of any naystayers or outside influences. All cults are known for their ability to remove the world of judgement, feedback, and impartiality from the atomized experiencer of their cult.
o How do you then behave in shared spaces? I already have this hilarious experience several times a month when I go to a Thinker's meeting or a Digital Cultures meeting and find that Traxx Hathor, who is taking the floor quite a bit at these meetings, has me on mute. I don't exist. Whatever I say in chat isn't viewable for him, and possibly whatever other newbies or strangers he is able to convince to also put me on mute. If someone else thinks to cut and paste what I say into their chat, they might break through his mute (this is how people often broke through others' muting of me on the forums) but many people aren't going to do that cut-and-paste int he hub-bub of a meeting.
The chairs of the meeting are left looking bemused as one part of the room talks to a person on mute, and one person determined to do a lot of talking and putting across of his view can't see the arguments against him, can't interpret the responses others are making to that antagonist of his views, and so on. It's one of the reasons these meetings can become incoherent.
They'd only get more so, once you could mute AND make invisible other people and what they say.
o The designers of these handy Stalinesque muters and erasers imagine that they're going to find only "a few" people that "everybody" has consensus about as needing to be muted. But in fact they'll find that on controversial figures, there might be a silent group that might not mute them, but look at -- or peek at underneath a mute from time to time -- what they say. They might find a wildly different list of those muted everywhere and conclude that world of subjectivities is at play. Perhaps "everybody" might decide the would mute Lazarus Divine but then Shaun Altman wouldn't mute him because he believes he has a fascinating and legitimate conversation to be had about George Bush and his policies. And so on.
People might be forced to have little "mute moratorium" areas just to see what their enemies are in fact saying about them...the Big Lies they might be spreading through that vicious, tendentious, back-biting hothouse little world of little people in their little houses on their little lots sitting around and gossiping about other people. Second Life!
It's that little world of tiny minds that the Lindens and their pals like Hiro would like to render for us. Just think of it, and don't let it pass.
The world of mutes and erasures forces one to play the game in self defense. So I'm starting a new blog rule for myself in the new year.
I'm going to run regular rebuttals of simple attacks of me on the forums, and turn off comments so as not to waste my time further then in becoming embroiled in what originated merely as the usual personal attack on me in the forums. These rebuttals to attacks are demonstratively going to be rebuttals to attacks other made, not fresh essays criticizing this or that view.
If I'm responding to someone's post in which they are merely criticizing my idea or making some critical assessment or something, then of course the posts will remain open.
What I'm trying to duplicate here is a level playing field: I don't get to answer posts personaslly attacking me on the forums. I don't get to answer any post mentioning my name (and any post mentioning my name is by and large a personal attack and a hate-fest). So when I expose, record, and rebut those attacks against me *made first* which I'm powerless to defend myself, nobody will get to take a further whack at me in my blog. Fair enough!
When someone attacks me on the forums in the sense of a TOS violation -- out of the blue, say, just because they like to remember and slam someone they hate, or simply falsely and maliciously, like these claims that anti-Prokofy groups are disbanded by those Lindens show Prokofy favouritism and so anti-Cristiano groups aren't disbanded -- these attacks need to be recorded, exposed, rebutted, and then moved on from. I think preventing endless silly diatribes claiming I'm a stalker is generally a beneficial thing for democratic discussion. Duplicating the realities of the forum in this narrow instance creates an interesting opportunity to observe.
Damn, I missed "What Hiro Erases Part One"!
*Pouts*
Last time that happened I missed Harry Potter and the Prokofy Stone!
Posted by: Delphi | 12/29/2005 at 07:13 PM
holy crap! only 2 mentions of aimee! that is only two more than zero! prok you are on the path to recovery.
Posted by: informer | 12/29/2005 at 07:55 PM
you aint the commissar. you aint even the lord (so taking your name in vain is just more prok-madness)
i know you think of yourself as a hero but a more fitting way to describe you is that ass at a danceclub that gets bounced for creeping people out. you act like a jerk, and security shows you the door. no genius. no doctored phtoso. no conspiracies. just an ass and the door it was shown.
Posted by: informer | 12/29/2005 at 08:45 PM
Icepick anyone?
Posted by: Delphi | 12/29/2005 at 08:59 PM
Ms. Profoky writes, "Blah, blah, blah, ....no comments, no problem."
What?
:O
Posted by: What? | 12/29/2005 at 09:21 PM
ok. i just wanna say, while i think 100% of proks blog is either stalking, lies, or total bullshit... i dont think the "blaa blaa blaa" guy should be doing that shit.
prok is gonna go down for what she is saying and doing. spamming the blog isnt gonna help. instead it distracts from proks insane message and almost make her seem right. so knock it off jackass.
Posted by: informer | 12/29/2005 at 10:43 PM
"Lektor Hannibal has made a personal attack on me, accusing me of "holding the purse strings at LL" because some telehub barons are being offered compensation for their telehub lands."
What a load of horseshit!
So we see, that when Prokofy goes windmilling off, accusing certain indivduals of having the Lindens in their pocket, it's "reporting", but when some one says the same in reverse about Squawk-ofy, it's a "personal attack!!!"
What a crock.
Listen up dummy, what he said was that it was partially your whining which got LL to do something. He didn't say you were a land baron, or any of the idiotic, hyperbolic bullshit you are projecting onto him. True or untrue, it is NO DIFFERENT than your "reporting", which 99% of the time is exagerrated so much as to hardly resemble what actually took place, just like your bullshit interpretation of Lektor's statement above.
You're becoming more transparent by the minute you old fool.
Gee, putting comments in the wrong thread is SO MUCH FUN!
*Gets out icepick*
Posted by: Delphi | 12/29/2005 at 10:48 PM
I agree completely about Lazarus. And, like you, I have never had any wish to see him banned. It surprises me that people on the forums have gone immediately to that - ban him! - when obviously asking him to cease the behavior in question would be the reasonable thing and sufficient thing to do.
As far as this erasing thing goes, it is totally nuts. If you are going to do something like that, you might as well not have SL. It is necessary to have a shared reality on some level, or you have no reality in common - just little parallel universes. And who needs SL for that?
I never understood people muting each other, either, for that matter - or putting each other on ignore. That only denies yourself knowledge. And who would want to be ignorant of knowledge?
As it is, those who really don't want to be bothered by other people and/or their builds can just go on a private island and not let anyone but their friends in.
There's a much simpler solution to the Lazarus thing here: The Lindens use their TOS to prevent one individual from ruining the game with an absurd blight upon the landscape, not even COUNTING the extortion and griefing aspects.
To come up instead with some way each individual can decide who and what will exist is just . . . nuts. It doesn't solve anything at all. And certainly solves nothing for new players, or media types, who drop in to see what the place looks like before they join, or before they write their article on it.
Maybe Joe Blow and friends have it just great because they've erased half of SL, but the game itself hasn't been made any more palatable. There IS a common society here. Without the common society, there is no SL.
As for the compensation for telehub landowners, I thought it was nice, and said so, despite four pages of people mostly screaming to high heaven about it. I think it is nice because I remember this girl or somebody getting on the forums to say she had just spent a bunch of money to buy land which was now not worth it.
The fact that they had this land on the auction, apparently knowing full well that they knew something we didn't about it, just made people spend more money than they would have otherwise. That wasn't quite kosher, really.
Nor do I think it sets any precedent for reimbursing everybody for everything, either.
coco
Posted by: Cocoanut Koala | 12/30/2005 at 12:17 AM
"so knock it off jackass."
Hey Informer....shova youra heada upa youra arsa! (or proks for that matter)
Posted by: Porkofy Beaver | 12/30/2005 at 06:20 AM
You could have at least spelled my name correctly psycho woman. You call that a personal attack? You're not even laughable anymore.
Posted by: Lecktor Hannibal | 12/30/2005 at 08:58 AM
"There's a much simpler solution to the Lazarus thing here: The Lindens use their TOS to prevent one individual from ruining the game with an absurd blight upon the landscape, not even COUNTING the extortion and griefing aspects."
::shrug:: The presence of Prok (and to some degree you) ruins the "game" for me far more than Lazarus.
Sure -- you are both more subtle --but your overall banality and unwillingness to adapt to changing circumstance make you both far more dangerous to an eclectic community than a goofball with serial signage.
Take your "Church Lady" mentalities the fuck out of the Metaverse already...or grow up. Your choice.
Posted by: Kendra Bancrodt | 12/30/2005 at 10:50 AM
Coco writes
"There IS a common society here. Without the common society, there is no SL."
You really don't see the irony of this coming from you -- do you.
LIke it or not, Laz is part of the society. Deal with it on a societal level. Don't go crying to the Linden -Mommy everytime you have an "issue"
Posted by: Kendra Bancrodt | 12/30/2005 at 10:54 AM
"Take your "Church Lady" mentalities the fuck out of the Metaverse already...or grow up. Your choice."
A-fucking-men!
Funny you say Church lady Kendra, because that is EXACTLY what I was thinking when I left the house last night!
Posted by: Delphi | 12/30/2005 at 10:59 AM
Well YAY!!!!
Prokofy "The PEOPLES CHAMPION" Neva, is BACK!!!
"Then it becomes necessary for the Dictator to eliminate those complainers about the others eliminated..."
Standing up for teh Downtrodden...protecting the weak and the uneducated "I really my blog is pitched over the heads of most people with only minimal education but that's ok, those who get it will get it : )
"
to make the world safe for us poor poor wee lil folk,
hmm but wait...
what EVIL FIC back Coup took ove rteh blog?? OMG those nassty FIC'ers they must have used their evil Tekki Wekki ways to hack in. Cuz i know that my hero Prokofy "The PEOPLES CHAMPION" Neva
The Great Thinker who pointed out the evil of a dictator being able to eliminate what they want at a whim wuld never say
"removing it with their god-powers. They need to get at the source of the cancer"
it MUST be a plot!
"Prokofy Neva: um foolish consistency is the hob=goblin of little minds"
Posted by: stpaulsub Clio | 12/30/2005 at 11:55 AM
"Church Ladies" are banal, conservative, rigid, hectoring, purse-slamming, bitter types -- and that's what you are, Delphi and Kendra -- insisting on conformity, group think, circling the wagons, protecting your little gal pals and constantly trying to badger and push people into line.
Lazarus isnt' a "goof-ball," he's a vindictive menace who takes great glea in causing emotional distress, property damage, and economic loss to others. I don't see anything creative in that. You people have lost any ability to feel the line between encouraging and discouraging creativity.
"Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" is exactly the right eptithet to use on you, stpaulsub. I gather you're unaware of how banal, stupid, and mediocre you look here with your incessant stream of trolling and flaming with your silly "people's champion" crap. If I say "I don't buy content" to people on their vaunted store lot, it doesn't mean "I never ever buy any content like houses," it means I don't go around shopping for clothing or vehicles or whatever, I just don't have the time and don't wish to waste the money."
Your persistant niggling and naggling about this only reveals you to be questionable abilities.
Lektor, accusing a person of "holding the purse-streams of LL" isn't something I'd accuse even the FIC or Anshe Chung, both of which I'm very crditical of. It's the kind of absurd, over-the-top mendacious and malicious claim for which you are known, and for which you've spent time in the cornfield : )
There's no irony about asking the Lindens to enforce their existing and fine TOS about "disturbing the peace" against Lazarus' actual and malicious disturbance of the peace in all the ways defined in CS 2 and 6, Global Attacks, and Policing. They all fit. Read them. They more than fit. In fact that it so fits, you wonder what on earth the Lindens are waiting for, and what it would take for them to enforce those provisions which don't kill creativity, but ensure it for all.
A person engaging in bad behaviour universally recognized under the universal (for this world) TOS should be asked to stop that behaviour, given opportunityt to change, and sanctioned, but not just removed or erased like some non-person.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | 12/30/2005 at 12:40 PM
Prok writes:
""Church Ladies" are banal, conservative, rigid, hectoring, purse-slamming, bitter types -- and that's what you are, Delphi and Kendra -- insisting on conformity, group think, circling the wagons, protecting your little gal pals and constantly trying to badger and push people into line.
Really? News to me. My stance is was and will be that diversity wins out. Where I take exception with YOU, Mr Neva is your bloviating kvetchery which insists that YOU know what is good for the rest of us. You don't. I circle no wagons, I belong to no "group". I engage in no group-think.
I think, however, that your own narrowminded nosey-parker activities do great damage to those around you. You are toxic.
I think you're pretty much the Mrs. Kravitz (from Bewitched) of the Metaverse.
I think your worthless creation (yes --I blame YOU) of the leech-class of landlords bleeding newbies dry for an uneeded service is indicative of a bougie sense of entitlement. And further, I think your constant attacks on other's in the guise of "fighting back" is your form of "letters of mark" to engage in a pirate's version of consumer advocacy.
You are far worse for the good of the community then Lazarus, who I neither defend or attack. Lazarus will go when he gets bored. YOU won't go till you're booted out. Much as I suspect you were booted from Sims Online.
In any event -- I don't particularly care as bad elemnts come and go. YOU included.
Posted by: Kendra Bancroft | 12/30/2005 at 02:09 PM
Kendra, there you go again. I stand up for my own beliefs and my own opinion. I'm not going to be sucked into yours at Kremneuberg, and not convinced to "change" -- this is like what Cristiano always nags me about, changing, accommodating to you all. Why? I have my beliefs and perceptions that appear right and correct to me, and it's perfectly legitimate to persuade others by argumentation to see the rightness of these views. This is normal democratic discourse. Others do the same thing, but that doesn't mean I have to cave to their pressures.
Of course you're in a group-think that constantly jabs at me no matter what I say, and you have a set of mind-memes and concepts about property, money, commerce, business, etc. that constitute a rigid, unacceptable ideology to me precisely because it is so ready to cancel out everything else in others -- their commercial entrpreneurial spirit, their inquiring minds, their experimentation, their debate, their application of fresh impressions. It's death.
Of course, being in group-think, you may not see it. In fact, I recently learned of an interesting experiment someone performed in which they took a list of my quotations, asked people what they thought, and they said, oh, I agree with that. Then they were surprised to understand they came from me.
That's the most banal, kneejerk thing. You never have anything but a snarky, withering, dumb retort to say to me. It's not effective.
I was never booted from Sims Online and I remain there in good standing. You need to stop believing lies you read in the Herald or whatever.
The hysterical notion of "bad elements" and "people who should be booted" comes right out of the Communist playbook. There's always someone not only "politically incorrect" but who "should die". It lets me know just what source of inspiration you draw your ideology from and its true nature. Any debate that relies for its arguments on things like "I can menace you with getting you kicked from the game" or "there's the door" or "you will be booted out" or "bad elements come and go" is an entirely impoverished one, but I suppose it's a useful exercise to have you expose yourself here so that others are warned about the evils of Kremneuberg.
I hardly think I bleed newbies dry lol. In fact, I bleed myself dry as they hit the money trees or balls or chairs or whatever. In fact, I ended the chair experiment because it was completely hosing me down. I provide subsidized low cost rentals for newbies -- $50/512/120 prims is hardly a rip-off. Everybody can pay something. I have free vendors to help people break into business. But I believe everyone can pay something, and that freebies should be limited to just the bottom threshold of a plan for loss leaders to bring in other business for other levels of products and services. That's just normal.
The idea that you can in this day and age label someone as "bougie" just has me convulsed in laughter. Somehow, you got stuck in Alcove I or II in the 1930s I guess, in some sectarian hell-hole grouplet. If you're too young for the 1930s, and it seems so, then you've had the awful misfortune of inheriting a political grandfather or grandmother who gave you these Leninist and Deutcherite concepts that continue to hobble your thinking.
Gosh, what a trip, I'm blamed for creating the leeching class of landlords??? I have to goggle at that one. There are literally hundreds of people providing rentals of all types in SL, fly around. In fact, cough, doesn't Kremneuberg?
And consumer advocacy a form of piracy? What ARE you smoking today Kendra?
Next, you're going to tell me some sectarian wild thing like "All property is theft." So...release your land, bougie lol.
I hardly think that rebuttals to these chronic silly attacks on me in the forums are themselves to be characterized as "attacks".
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | 12/30/2005 at 03:44 PM
You two little knitting circle busybodies need to fucking get over yourselves. Yes, YOU too Coco, you self-righteous, hypocritical, RL laurel dropping, suck-up harpy. At least Prokofy has original thoughts, despite her atrocious social skills, Thank god there aren't too many like you two needling little Mrs. Kravitz's (tips hat to Kendra) in this world, or we'd all be doomed.
Whatever it is that you've done in your real lives that makes you think that you know whats best for EVERYONE else, is simply a couple old ladies who think raising a couple of kids makes them qualified to be everyone elses mother.
Shove off already.
I've got news for you, many of us have raised kids, and yet somehow we manage to get through our lives without feeling some irrepressable urge to parent the world. Fuck off with your June Cleaver meets the Stepford wives act. It has no place in an online world. None.
I liked it better when you two chatty Cathys were threatening to tier down and Coco the Clown was threatening to leave SL. So much more befitting your toddler-esque tantrum style of lobbying. Can we go back to that?
Posted by: Delphi | 12/30/2005 at 03:55 PM
"This is normal democratic"
There's NOTHING normal about you.
Posted by: Delphi | 12/30/2005 at 03:59 PM
And it's a good thing, too, normal is dull!
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | 12/30/2005 at 04:31 PM
Yes, he is part of the society, Kendra, and I WANT him to be part of the society. I hate this "ban Lazarus" thing some people get going.
And I also don't like to "cry to Mommy" over it, but I gotta tell ya, Mommy holds all the strings here.
If I am "crying to Mommy" it is only in the same sense that I vote irl, or lobby for my interests irl, or write letters to the editor irl, or any of those things.
The difference is that in our case, the government - "Mommy" - has all the power and all the rules and is the final interpretation of all the rules and all we CAN do is give our opinion on it.
The only logical opposite to doing that is to shut up and say nothing about anything. Both irl and on the game.
As for your other comments, people who make such comments about "church lady" and "get the fuck out of the metaverse" are the people who need to grow up and learn to live with other people, not me.
I'm happy and willing to live my second life OR my first one with you in it, Kendra. I'm not willing to go so far as to shup up and get out of your metaverse, however.
I am doing something about it societally, in addition to making my views known to the Lindens (who hold the real power to apply their own TOS). You, Kendra, may choose to sit at the sidelines of everything, declaring yourself not to be "nosy parker" and all that, but you don't get to insist everyone else the same.
coco
Posted by: Cocoanut Koala | 12/30/2005 at 04:32 PM
Yes, well said, Coco, that's how I see it too. I wouldn't dream of having Kendra banned, or hoping she'd leave, or expecting that "people like her should get out" or anything of the kind. I loathe Leninist views of the type she holds, I loathe Neualtenberg. But it has a right to exist. It's legitimate political expression. It's a sim that people voluntarily join and can do as it wishes of course. It's only when it begins to campaign with ideas like "let's have flat tier" across the grid that I cry 'to arms' and man the battle stations. My battle then would be against its encroachments and for my own freedoms and yours, but not to abolish it, shut it down. That would be wrong.
Kendra's constant pushing out of people from her magic circle is very troublesome to me. It's not enough to ignore and go about your life, or just put someone on ignore -- you have to obliterate their existence as well. This is the supreme intolerance; it's the logic of the deathcamps. I'm never suprised that it comes from the logic of socialism of the kind Kendra espouses, because socialism is crime and crime leads to death.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | 12/30/2005 at 04:37 PM
You are definitely the worst sort of male chauvinist pig I have run into in years, Delphi.
I tried knitting once, but I didn't much care for it, and the purse I made sagged like hell. I preferred crocheting, but I haven't done that in years.
I have other hobbies, too - scrapbooking, playing piano, crafting, cooking, organizing.
YOU have defined all traditionally female activities - such as knitting - and decided they are a pejorative.
I have fought against the line of thinking that says if women have traditionally enjoyed it, it is inferior, all my life.
I have never seen such a concentration of stereotypical female-bashing terms as I read in that one, five-paragraph post of yours above. Your true self shows there, and horribly.
You are without doubt the most horrid female-bashing person I've run into . . . maybe ever.
And if you could read, you'd know I don't suck up to Prok.
coco
Posted by: Cocoanut Koala | 12/30/2005 at 04:38 PM
Prok writes without irony?
"It's not enough to ignore and go about your life, or just put someone on ignore -- you have to obliterate their existence as well."
This is precisely my point. While I WISH you would leave SL, I don't insist upon it.
I can't say the same about your attitude towards Lazarus. You're the one beating the warpaths to ban Laz. Not me.
Two other things worth mentioning. You clearly don't understand what Neualtenburg is about if you believe it's a feudalist (despite the pretty bavarian buildings) system like your Ravenglass rentals.
Secondly, If you state that I think of "consumer Advocay" as piracy. I do not. I'm a consumer advocate in RL. I think YOUR brand of preening (pun unintended) soapbox posing drivel that purports to be consumer advocay is nothing but more self-involved leechcraft on your part.
Learn a trade. The problem with capitalism is that no-talent loudmouth's like you can scratch out a living while seeking to make more talented people (like scripters who you refer to as garage mechanics) live under your fat thumb.
Your vision of Metaverse as Scarsdale sickens me beyond belief.
Posted by: Kendra Bancroft | 12/31/2005 at 01:03 AM
I think he has a trade.
coco
Posted by: Cocoanut Koala | 12/31/2005 at 02:58 AM