Tracking

The asylum has been handed to the inmates to run with the new resmod system enabling residents -- a hand-picked FIC list if there ever was one! -- to run the asylum -- the raucious, vicious, vituperative, imbalanced, non-TOS enforced forums of SL.

Some Lindens, including even El Presidente himself, are said to want to shut the forums down completely and leave only the Linden announcements and classifieds. Perhaps they ought to consider shutting down "General" until they can get the right policy going to address it. I think a paid, benefited, salaried, full-time professional employee should run the forums, not harried office staff pulled in hundreds of directions, especially when one of those directions includes running another suspect overlord system called the Mentors, Greeters, Helpers, Instructors. It's just too many conflicts of interest.

Instead, without the budget or the time to focus on this, LL is putting the badly-messed-up forums, with their outrageous lack of fairness and their horrid impunity for a hardy hardcore handful of mod friends and Linden pets, into the hands of...some of their best pets, either self-selected through volunteering, or through being picked by Jeska and other Lindens themselves. The mind boggles. In other words, the reward for your vicious posting, bullying, harassment, and general snarkiness is...to get to be in charge to give a pass on that same behaviour in others.

It's been funny to see people like Jeffrey Gomez, a forums favourite and *this close* to being FIC (he'd be FIC if he weren't critical of his game dev project meltdown on outside blogs...tsk, tsk, Jeffrey and you were *so close*!) -- fall all over themselves to explain that they didn't want this, don't need this, and if asked to serve, will decline.

A few days of having the inmates further run the asylum and even perform the lobotomies, removing threads, deleting threads, creating non-event and non-persons, and people are already screaming, especially some of the biggest bullies whose threads were always intended to reduce even new people to tears. But it's in part accidental.

Apparently some people posting meta-discussions are stickied -- an absolutely unprecedented practice in a world where stickies have always been the Linden province. And others are being put to off-topic. I can't see all of it, but I understand that even Cristiano is complaining.

What is most, hilarious, is that people are complaining about the resmods now having the names of those who abuse-report...and what they might do with that information. Gasp! They might go to third-party sites! Gasp!

Pendari is claiming that even if there isn't a TOS violation, if there are enough ARs, the Lindens must take action. (!) And therefore such information can't be publicized so that the outside word can't see the gang warfare and group-think on the SL forums. This is exactly what's wrong with the system -- execution by group-think.

I could remind everyone that this is EXACTLY what was done in my case: the Lindens themselves told me that it was not that I had violated the TOS, so much as that they had a storm of abuse reports -- "we have a riot on our hands" and they felt they had to "do something."

So sure, the power of only 20 people to be thorough-going assholes, hysteric drama queens, thin-skinned assholes, is enormous, because they can cook the books and sway the Lindens. And that's exactly what we've seen all along.

All of a sudden some of these self-same assholes, now at the switchboard and the control panel, see this assholery pouring in, and now those suddenly dependent on them imagine the assholery pouring in...and they get worried. They see how it works, and being not totally immune to reason, they wonder what the consequences are.

What if one of their number breaks ranks, and decides to go and tell tales out of school, to tell a story, for example, that when Cocoanut makes a perfectly reasonable and non-TOS-violating statement, that a slew of vicious fanboyz like Enabran or fangirlz like Pendar might well be deluging the mods with complaints, just because they don't like what is said.. not only about their own bad behaviour, but the system itself? One can well see that a harried mod or resmod, dealing with a deluge like that and unable to stand up to it by saying, "This isn't a TOS violation, get a life," moves a thread to off-topic or some other cornfield.

Many of the forum royals are complaining about this information about the AR reports now "getting out". They're fearful that some of this dirty little secret about the forums will now get out to the public. We'll be see that there really isn't moderation or TOS enforcement, but just squalid little squads of vicious fanboyz putting their pudgly little fingers on the AR button and squealing like little pigs.

We always KNEW that is how it works, and now we can see how the forum royals themselves are screeching at the thought that PROOF of it might somehow leak out.

Of course, people trust a system, and hope that when they file an abuse report, a Linden will sagely and impartially and dispassionately look at it, and not notice if there are 100 or 10 or 1 complaints, and deal with it "normally". But they don't. Not only because they are "only human" as some of them are quick to beg off, when you confront them with their persistent inconsistency but because five minutes ago, they were residents themselves with their little pals and biases.

Now, that phenom, already a problem within the Linden ranks, is deepended with the resmod system (like the infamous Stratics resmods), we can see just how problematic it is.

People are screaming about "privacy" now, worried their AR reports are going to "get out".

I, in fact, have responded to these persistent calls to publicize the names of perpetrators with my own call to publicize the name of abuse reporters -- exactly what's happening now as a dozen new resmods start to get a glimpse into this awful system and see all those who file ARs -- many of them specious and malicious. 

After all, a RL court of law or judicial proceeding would have the names of the plaintiff and the respondent, as well as prosecutor and judge, all known. Of course, in a vicious setting like certain Russian provinces, a judge attempting to try a case of a neo-Nazi who has stabbed or killed Jews of Tajiks might themselves be harmed or killed, along with those who gave testimony against the neo-Nazis and even their associates. This kind of evil system is one I know all too well, and in that setting, people begin to reach for solutions involving protected witnesses and anonymous testimomy and witness protection programs, etc.

But we don't need a witness protection program in SL, it's a game, and your RL information isn't known (or shouldn't be known.) Instezd, what all of us need is protection from YOUR vindictiveness in anonymously -- with impunity, without proper oversight, without transparency -- filing specious abuse-reports on others.

And speaking of how "they track you," Hiro, here's the link to the thread you claim is "deleted" as "all my threads are deleted".

http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=46370&page=1&pp=15

The name of the thread I started was "Insanity," and it addressed a threat sent to my email I used for the game from the apparent RL relative of a forums royal utterly immune to punishment for her evil deeds on the forums, whom I criticized, and who sent me a nasty threat claiming that all my IP information, email, weblogs, communications, blah blah blah were being turned over to the "FBI and the IRS" for "investigation."

Your mind has to absolutely boggle at someone who would go to the FBI (the IRS part is merely bewildering) and complain about somehow who..negrated them in a game on their avatar? For...their bullying behaviour and evil disclosure of first-life information on the forums? I'd love to have a nice long chat with Agent Smith about THAT one. "Um, well, see it's a game where you make characters...and then they have these forums...no, they aren't real...no, not real information, but the characters...no, it's a forums where you use just the avatars name...no, I didn't contact that person, I have no idea who they are and have no way of knowing...no, officer this is a GAME with AVATARS...etc." 

So in dealing with that completely untenable threat, which I immediately sent to LL (knowing they couldn't do much about it as it came to email essentially outside their purview), I felt that publicizing it, like I publicized Nolan's blackmail, might help dispel some of the sense of impunity and arbitrariness that people who do things like that feel in a game like this. They think they can engage in bad behaviour, and then if you call them on it, threaten you with prosecution.

I think it's very instructive to read back over this thread to see how people behave, how horrible they are, and how their bullying, sneering, and sniping are utterly beside the point.

http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=46370&page=1&pp=15

Here's the exact quote of what I wrote, Hiro, and others labouring under this zealous and hateful illusion that I have not only said something technically inept, but something libelous or something "for which I was banned" -- which indeed I was not (the date of this post was May 14):

"Good reason never to go to this untrustworthy site, people. They capture your IPS and try to use it to hone in on your place of business or residence in RL and to "track" you around the internet."

NOTE: this statement was said in the context of 1) an emailed threat from someone reigning supreme on the forums and on third-party sites harassing me 2) the presence of third-party sittes that did indeed track me and out me, even if not using technical tools to do so, thereby impugning their good will and the public trust.

1. First, get over yourself if you'd like to re-iterate the specious arguments that these thingies are called IPs (small "s" for the plural") and not "IPS" (Internet Service Provider) -- as I patiently explained, this error was not intentional, I fully understand the difference, and I also pointed out for extra credit that people often mix up these terms, and refer to the one when they mean the other, and people accept that on tech help pages -- I reproduce it here merely to show how hordes of forums jackals can stampede off in a direction of slamming you for a mistake like that, and miss the glaring fact of one of their number stooping so low -- and so ridiculously -- as to try to threaten you with "contacting the FBI" which was the CONTEXT for this thread that everybody resurrecting it as "proof of how Prok libels businesses" utterly forgets.

2. Second, yes, they capture your IP address. That isn't disputed. Cristiano and others all say this, and indeed a blog site like this has the technology to capture the IPs. Can they use this to literally track you to your home using just that information? Well, of course not, and that issue is dissected and defended in the thread, but in fact using this information, matching it with others, they can and do track you -- and once the desire is there to track you, they don't even need an IP to go and fish out things you might have written somewhere else, then use the info of people of bad will to match it to your RL info, etc.

3. Third, the issue at hand then is how they use that information, and what is their intent, not merely the technical capacity of this or that literal machine tracking. Given that a third-party site prevails over the outing of RL information, the outing even of the wrong RL information such as to libel, and engages in repeated, vituperative personal attacks in violation of *what would be the TOS IF they were bound by it* I raise questions about whether they are adequate partners for the Lindens.

4. Again, to repeat: Fourth, the other issue at hand is not literally how you can track someone to their actual door -- I make that abundantly clear in that thread". It's how you can use the IP address as a marker, that will help you find other things -- a host of other things, especially when shared with other third-party sites in SL, who will likely have increasing powers with the integration of web-on-a-prim and the proliferation of more sites handling goods and services.

All the major companies can even get together and block someone they hate collectively from even being able to shop or rent a home in SL -- and if you doubt they'll do that, you haven't aquainted yourself with the viciousness and retaliation of people in SL. Example: Marcos Fonzarelli, who bans me not only from his home parcel in Boardman, though I've never dream of going inside his house, also bans me from his public, huge building ARMORD in Miramare, so that I cannot even take people like interested newbies on a tour of this site among other architectural wonders. I and my alts are banned of this property, not because I've done anything to this property, or attempted to grief it in any kind of way, or done anything like prim bomb or verbally harass or send dollar payments or any of the typical griefing techniques of SL, but merely because I wrote something critical not even of him, but of a class of people he is in called "The FIC". Imagine! That's how it works! And that's how it will go on working unless more people begin to wake up and object.

5. Once you have a person's URL, which many grab "normally" for services, with ill intent, you can track that IP itself to see if it "goes anywhere". Perhaps it might appear in some form on a work-related site, another game site, who knows? Use google and see what you come up with with reverse lookup like I tried with mine just now, that might just turn up a webpage or a help line or something somewhere, just like any google witch-hunt. Of course, you don't google it and come up instantly with a name and an address. That might take many more look-up and reverse look-up steps. But it is INFORMATION. And INFORMATION IS POWER.

Indeed, I first learned of this concept of the "untrustworthy site" that grabs your IP information so that you have to be concerned, from a former friend and preeminent tekkie wiki who first told me this concept in detail as it relates to games (I'd heard of it before but hadn't thought of its consequences) and learned from this consummate tekkie that the reason they didn't even visit and read the Herald was because of their persistent -- and tekkily informed belief-- that it wasn't trustworthy, i.e. it can and would grab your IP and store it and use it to ban you. So there!

I've found that people disagree about how much you can or cannot get out an IP, and what Internet Service Providers in fact will give up once they have this information, but when I see certain bad actors offering webhosting inside SL, I have to wonder how personal information will be used -- as any thinking person will.

And Hiro and other fanboyz, I wish to point out once again: this thread "Insanity" about the problem of tracking with IPs -- SOMETHING SOMEONE THREATENED ME WITH IN MY PERSONAL EMAIL DUH was allowed to run for a whopping TWENTY FIVE PAGES. I was treated to all manner of ridicule and harassment from raising this REAL PROBLEM OF TRACKING. No mod closed it because of what *I* wrote, initially, or in a few posts down from my original post -- that was ALWAYS the case BTW. They didn't send me ANY warning over this thread -- which they themselves allowed to run for TWENTY-FIVE PAGES. Finally, not Jeska, but Robin, the senior Linden in charge of community, closed it and said "this post seems to have degenerated to attacks". The attacks *were on me*. They were NOT ABOUT "my personal attacks on others" -- a constant misrepresentation of the facts.

The QUESTION I raised was LEGITIMATE. THE QUESTION I RAISED WAS ABOUT AN ASSHOLE THREATENING ME WITH TRACKING AND EVEN TURNING ME INTO THE FBI -- AN OUTRAGE. I was not warned, or banned over RAISING THIS QUESTION nor did LL accuse me of libel then, or when they banned me.

So please, get over yourself and stop misrepresenting the public record, there for all to see. Go read the thread, and realize how fucking ridiculous it is. I raised a problem for the community at large because of a direct threat to me in which a person claimed to use my IP and turn me into the FBI for utterly specious reasons. I also raised the problem of a third-party site that would out my RL and harass me with fake RL info and cause a storm of hatred on the forums.

And...why were they all doing this again, boys and girls? Because I questioned there continual bullying and harassment of others on the forums with impunity.

What's hilarious to me is how quickly these squealing fanboyz picked for the resmod tasks, and the forum royals now under their whip, are now suddenly screeching about "privacy" of their AR'ing information andthe fear of third-party sites and what they might do with it.

Yeah, be afraid, be very afraid!

Perhaps they fear, just to pick a fake resident name, that Vicious Backbite, will turn out to be the one behind 50 percent of all AR's, and once this information gets out, third-party sites will begin to dissect Vicious Backbite's motives, and why Vicious Backbite gets even 10 percent of all her AR's to result in police blottered disciplined incidents because she's an old pal of the resmods or the LL mods and why Vicious Backbite gets many perks or whatever from LL.

I think if only we could take the lid off the forums, to pick up the rocks there and peer underneath them, we're going to find something like that. Either some relative or crony or pal of a Linden as an explanation, or sheer idiocy and negligence, or both. Otherwise, you can't explain the persistent viciousness and bias in these forums.

When Pathfinder can't even get the issue about the publicizing of the AR names, you realize you have a deep perception and culture problem, where the company culture has so overtaken its practitioners that they can no longer see straight. Nothing but the heartiest dose of reality could save them -- and where will that come from?

If the "outing" of the AR names will put a curb on AR reports, I think that would be a very good thing. There are far too many of them, far too many spurious and vicious ARs filled with personal animus rather than an accurate assessment of the facts, and if the whole point of the AR system was to "help" the busy Linden mods because they "can't be everywhere," then real consideration should be given to taking down this AR system completely. If you have resmods who can presumably review these threads now with more "time and talent" then you have eyeballs in real time, and don't need the AR. If that produces some squawking, then perhaps real thought should be given to adding even more volunteers.

Of course, the idea of having "jury duty" of every two weeks is absurd, because there is no training, no fair procedures, no history of good practices, and apparently no good supervision to make that kind of random and uneven system work.

If the fear of being outed on a third-party site is enough to make the forums jackals worry that now their fellow FIC have the information about their AR wars against others, then so be it. Keep publishing it. Keep providing it. Let the resmods have all of it. Let the community in fact eventually get what only the Lindens have -- that outpouring of biased, vicious, and stupid abuse-reporting that is not based in any sort of rule of law but only based in evil subjectivity and Group-Think.

Let the Lindens put to rest any notion such as purveyed by Pendari that Lindens will discipline people merely because "a large group in the community says so" and not under the law.

INDEED, LET'S CATCH THEM DOING IT AND END THIS VICIOUS PRACTICE ONCE AND FOR ALL.

They must enforce the rule of law, not the rule of Group-Think. They need to grasp that principle, and articulate it, and Pathfinder not "getting" this is of the utmost concern.

The other thing to do, of course, might be to boycott these forums, stop posting on them, and for those of us permabanned, not even rebut them anymore. For example, when vicious little Preen Queen has the temerity to put on these forums that all her thinly-veiled attacks on me were really genuine general comments made about general issues, we could supply a list of all those posts that will more than prove that she is a vicious little psycho if she thinks she can get the community to believe that she isn't attacking someone with a post like "we need psychiatrists to treat gender dysphoria" or "Dear Jake, I have a boy who has a crush on me" or "I need safety from stalkers from the FBI". But...life is short, and then you die lol.

Meanwhile, Hiro and others who continue to print this lame-assed libel against me that I libeled others and was banned for it, I invite you to read through the "Insanity" thread. Look again at this infamous quote, the TWENTY-FIVE PAGE discussion, and cease your misrepresentation of my case of permabanning.

I was permabanned because Jeska, Pendari, and many other residents-turned-Lindens and residents-hoping-to-become Lindens and Lindens under their sway thought "something should be done" even if there wasn't a TOS violation but merely lots of abuse reports. It was and is unjust.

Finally, nature is taking its course -- unbidden, uninvited. Truth will out! WOOT!

Comments

[Kyrah Abattoir]

you dont happend to have a domain name? cause by using a nifty little command called "whois" i can get from it stuffs like your real name, adress and phone number.

[Prokofy Neva]

Yes, stupid, assassinine little vindictive asses like you, Kyrah, are what make me raise questions about the harvesting and privacy parties of third-party sites.

Um "Aaron" and "Pope Urban VIII" or whoever, you'll have to use your SL names to make nasty comments like "get a life" etc etc if you'd like your posts to remain here.

[siggy]

So.. I'm to read the post to see what arseholes ppl are, but ignore it where you were a big enough arsehole for someone to threaten sending shit to the FBI?
(which itself is a pretty stupid threat - ranks up there with the OMFGZ SLANDEROUS LIBEL!)

[Prokofy Neva]

Um, where am I a "big enough arsehole" to deserve such a threat to send shit to the FBI? Honestly, you all have lost your minds. This person sent this threat merely because I tripled-negrated them in the game. Imagine! And why did I triple negrate them? For persistently, malicious, deliberately continuing to not only out my RL gender on the forums, when at that time it was not on my FL profile and not part of any link whatsoever, they continued, maliciously, to keep doing this and claiming it was "generally known" or "was on the Internet" when it was definitely not. This was just malice, that began the instant I posted the very first time, questioning a thread started only about me, about an inworld dispute. I've repeated this enough times, you should get it.

Honestly, the challenge to people who persist in thinking I've violated the TOS or made personal attacks such that are deserving of punishment ought to come up with links from the forums instead of talking through their ass.

Find something on the forums that proves "I'm a big enough assholes" Siggy, I dare you, you seem to have a lot of time on your hands. In looking at these old posts, I marvel in fact how they go on for pages, and no mods in fact interfere, because in fact I'm not doing anything wrong.

[Alan_Kiesler]

Morning Prok,

Well, I'll be one of the first to accept that this has not gone off well so far, and I volunteered for this! :) It's been an exciting few days at best, hoping it will calm down once people get the hang of it all.

I happen to have some experience with forums that had a very active (and visually obvious) moderator group. They happen to be Uru forums of course, but tis not a bad place to get experience in forum software in. So I came into this with both eyes open, and the expectation that there would be some stumbling about (which we all have seen). But I'm also seeing this from a different perspective than most - I don't, in the end, care as much about SL as I do Uru. This helps to temper my feelings in SL I think, and makes for a better poster (I *do* have active interests there other than Uru, and so I do care, just not fanatically like I've seen some you have mentioned in the past).

I would be somewhat saddened if you considered me as of 'them' now. I think this may yet work. I freely admit it has a few kinks to be worked out, and a number of us - myself included - agree with you and the rest of the community on enough points that I think it will get fixed in short order.

My concern is if it does not, than the fracturing of SL shall continue. If that happens there is a very good chance nothing good will get done, and LL will need to close their doors out of sheer attrition. Most likely to Something Else.

I don't want to see the repeat of the Live Prologue fracturing, just before the Shutdown whose anniversary is ironically coming up in less than two weeks from now. And I would not like to see a similar fate befall LL/SL.

--Alan

[Alan_Kiesler]

Kyra, as an aside:

Whois on my domain will get my ISP, not me. This is becoming a common practice these days, usually for free by the hoster, and one I'd suggest getting out of sheer consistency more than anything else. :)

--Alan

[Prokofy Neva]

BTW, if you go to those geek help sites like Ask Leo, in fact there is a bit of disagreement about this concept of the Whois reverse lookup. I could point out that if you have somehow pasted an email or chat that automatically contained your IP numbered address into a forum or some other text visible somewhere, it would obviously show up in google -- and that's how sometimes people actually can obtain wierd things like Romanian and Nigerian financial scam addresses or Russian mail-order bridal scams, because they sometimes mess up and leave the IP visible on a form or chat or email somewhere.

Also I've seen more than one tekkie on these help sites claim that through "social engineering" they'd be able to cross the firewall that we all believe exists where an ISP will never give up the look-up info.

Having worked closely with small ISPs in various countries over the years, I can well imagine where I, as a regular customer giving them lots of business, might get into a position where I'd provide some really compelling reason for them to turn over data to me -- I can imagine all kinds of plausible scenarios. I imagine there are even people able to put on a good hoax call as "Detective O'Reilly" on the phone to an ISP or whatever. The point is, the tekkie wikinistas out there wouldn't advocate all this proxy server stuff and cutaways to make your IP not show up if they didn't have their own concerns.

Alan, I'm feeling your forehead for a temperature here because I hear you all of a sudden talking lots of Newspeak and Doublespeak, in which the take-home is as follows:

1. Some of you are fanatics about SL,unlike me, who is therefore superior because I'm dispassionate. You all care too much about SL and while I care a lot about some other thing, at least in the SL setting I'm superior by dint of my dispassionate approach, i.e. you're suspect in your analysis.

2. Gosh, I hope you won't consider me as "them" now. "Them" can't be all bad, if I'm among "them" now can it? So cease asking questions about "them"!

3. I won't take up any of your actual issues in my disarming and earnest reply, like whether or not I see slews of ARs coming in from one person -- those are just merely "technical kinks to work out".

So, how about it Alan, are there slews of AR's coming in from just a few people? Are they specious? Are they frivolous? Is there a pattern?

And if you have to mumble stuff about how you have signed an NDA or "for the good of the community" you must now become "them," well...I can only say, gosh, we sure DO have to worry if seemingly intelligent, dispassionate, reasonable people like Alan can't come clean on what the real story is with the ARs because they have to "protect the system".

[Prokofy Neva]

BTW, underlying your analysis is the concept that "fracturing the community" is bad. It may not be. There are some people that have this vision of "United We Stand, Divided We Run Free At Last*. I happen to disagree with this idea that we should have a million local laws that are going to override some more liberal federal law of a basic metaverse-wide TOS, if you will. (I'd rather see it come in the form of a Magna Carta or a constitution with a bill of rights, not supplied by game companies.)

But let's say the wider community, as diverse as it is, increasingly came to see the forums gang and their meanness and viciousness as completely untenable, and just slowly withdrew from all of them. Just stopped posting, and began to post on their blogs, or simply not post anymore. You can already see some of that happening.

The forums will then fill up with either stupid stuff about sex pose balls and "Is cheating on your RL lover in SL a sin?" etc. and not get any real intellectual following, or LL will be forced to make it a bulletin board for ads and only the most Bowdlerized comments will survive.

I think it would be a very healthy development for this world if various thriving alternative or sub worlds began to thrive completely outside of the forums hegemony. In fact, the reality is they DO. There are huge worlds within the world of SL that have nothing absolutely to do with the forums, the Lindens, the FIC, and have their own internal dynamic. Thank God for these developments, and the job is only to make sure they aren't killed.

[Cocoanut]

Alan, in URU - URU is a game? Well, if so, in URU, if you are suspended or banned from the forums, are you automatically suspended or banned from the game?

coco

[Kyrah Abattoir]

thanks for the compliments Prok, coming from you its an honor that makes me blush deeply.

WHOIS information for secondlife.com:

Registrant:
linden lab
1100 sansome st.
san francisco, ca 94111-1205
us

Registrar: ALLINDOM

Domain Name: SECONDLIFE.COM
Created on: 29-APR-02
Expires on: 29-APR-07
Last Updated on: 22-JUL-05

Administrative Contact:
administrator, domain [email protected]
linden lab
1100 sansome st.
san francisco, ca 94111-1205
us
+1.4152439000
+1.4152439045

Technical Contact:
administrator, domain [email protected]
linden lab
1100 sansome st.
san francisco, ca 94111-1205
us
+1.4152439000
+1.4152439045

[jauani]

i criticize LL on an outside blog on occassion. am i FIC? you keep switching my status and i would like the straight answer so i know what to put on my business card!

[Jake Reitveld]

I am done with the forums and done worring about the whole damed issue. Once certain people, who regularly make posts that are abusive and insulting and really, in my mind violate the TOS, are made forum res mods. I am done. Its a game of favorites, and LL is not even pretending, thedy picked people who didn't even volunteer.

I am sorry, I have valued Pendari's commets and posts, even when I did not agree with them, but Pen is just one exmple of someone who should not be a resmod. But pen is not the onlyone on that list, by any means.

Thus LL's new policy has ensured that my presence on the forums will be minimal. It makes it easy to sit back and wait for DnD online to come out and be my virtual environment of choice for the next few months.

[Prokofy Neva]

Hi, Jake, wow, that's quite the statement! However, I've heard of "I'm quitting the forums cold turkey" many times, and it's like smoking...why, I've quit smoking lots of time LOL. What is "DnD Online"?