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02/16/2006

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Beryl Greenacre

Prokofy, you amaze me with your encyclopedic (if sometimes biased, but hey, aren't we all, to an extent) knowledge of SL. I am only halfway through this exhaustive listing of SL "players" from the DI list, and I've already learned a lot. Always a low-profile player myself, I am having a very hard time keeping up with current events in SL right now due to a PTA project from hell that I took on at my son's school; thanks for the Cliff Notes version of the DI list, in one convenient location. :)

Cocoanut

I can help out some in this cataloging effort:

Jvizzle Jacques - a nice guy, who runs a lot of game-type things (and I don't know what else). I ran into him as a new player when he was doing trivia. (Wish he did more of that!) Later, I went on to play Bingo and Slingo at his places. He stopped playing the games I enjoy most, and so I stopped going (plus I no longer have time for many games) - not sure what games or what else he is offering now.

KatanaBlade Anubis - I know this person from Treasure Hunts they used to hold on their land, which was near Spitooney, and the name of which I can NEVER remember. But it was like a whole city, with lots of shopping.

Drift Monde - owns a premier texture store. Judging by the amount of time I spend in it, it probably collects lots of traffic!

coco

Prokofy Neva

Thanks for all those additions. I'm going to try to get online later and see if I can't do some more basic research on the others -- I know many have themed sims, stores, clubs but I just didn't have any direct dealings with them or enough knowledge to write more than "a store owner".

I think even if we fill in all the blanks, the picture we get will still be incredibly far more comlex than: camp chair king.

Indeed, some of the most notorious camp-chair kings aren't even on this list!

Dwell

Amend this entry if you like...

Flyingroc Chung: Owns Heisenburg(?) casino. A very ugly looking non-traditional gambling den. Where does he get dwell? Money ball/chair camping.

Prokofy Neva

Regarding Flyingroc, I'd have to check out that claim inworld, not sure he does the camp-chair thing, but doesn't he script stuff too?

Dwell

Yeah. Don't take my word for it. I encourage you to go check out the casino for yourself. Check his picks for a teleport. (The casino pick says "no parcel" but I guarantee you it takes you right there)

I was there earlier, to verify (as admittedly, I haven't been in a while). There weren't many campers, mind you, but they were there alright.

He scripts (I assume) and sells casino games too, yes.

Prokofy Neva

Dwell, the rule here is that you must post with your Second Life name or your posts will be removed.

Dwell

Then remove my posts I guess. I was just trying to be helpful.

Besides, I was under the impression you were only upset with people posting anon. while taking stabs at you.

I can appreciate the desire to have those who would question you or naysay against you post with their real SL names, so you know who they are.

But for something like this? It was just a contribution for an entry that you asked a ?tion about.

Do what you will.

Kyrah Abattoir

you forgot someone in this list of peoples you hate and disdain , me ^^

one day you will have to explain me what is wrong into the whole tekki thing (as you like to call it)

Yumi Murakami

I can see there's a fair point to the loss of DI based on what you've posted, though.

In a lot of the cases, the people whose names you've posted are not the people who created things, but just the people who happen to own the land. For example, Calrathe Charlton. What does she do? Well, she owns the island Bizarre. But a major traffic draw on Bizarre is Curious Kitties - Ameshin Yossarian's store. But, because Ameshin doesn't own the land, she doesn't get to be a "top developer".

Wraith Unsung owns Aurora, another multibuild sim. Wraith has some very good stuff there, but again I suspect a good part of the traffic draw is the work of Amethyst Rosencrans.

Now I am not saying that Calrante and Wraith are "ripping off" these people - I am pretty sure they get payback and preferential land deals for attracting the traffic - but DI does result in what's just happened here: when someone builds a list of the top developers on SL and posts it on a popular site, the non-landowners get left out.

The fact that DI favours land barons and network effect (and thus, early movers) is probably is much to do with it being phased out as the camping chair issues.

Yumi Murakami

Oh yes. Chilly Charlton's another casino/entertainment operator, and Ashley Petunia runs a BDSM club/store.

I'm rather worried by the huge amount of stuff I've seen in SL that ties into names on that list. Is this this the Pareto principle illustrated?

Doli McGettigan

Forcythia Wishbringer is head of the Elven Glen sims. That's about all I know.

Brace

Jvizzle Jacques - Doesn't he own the Ice Dragon sim? Cool dude - really nice peoples to hang with.

Stroker Serpentine - Isnt this the Stroker who sells/creates the stroker sex stuff?

Shaft Jackson - Owner of South I sim would be my guess. Met him back when South I was mainland club. Great folks - kick ass events :) They even have and sell housing/homes. And there's a mall.

laurionna Beckenbauer - Owner of Mahalai Goth Resort and a few other sims I think.

GEOFF Frost- Designer of clothes! GEOFF and DEEDEE are a trip to hang out with lol THEY ALWAYS TALK IN CAPS. ALWAYS. I'M NOT KIDDING!

Letum Zuma - major club owner would be my guess. At least when I met him thats what he was doing.

Malakira Ixtab - owner of Lestat Night club and mall.

Starley Thereian - makeup, hair, skin and clothing diva!

KatanaBlade Anubis - the Crying Rose sim owner? Fabulous skins at anyrate. Absolutely beautiful.

Prokofy Neva

The rule is that you have to post on this forum with your SL name. The first few times a person posts without it, I don't erase them. It's not only about "Besides, I was under the impression you were only upset with people posting anon. while taking stabs at you." If you follow the actual jurisprudence here, you'll see I've cut out positive as well as negative posts merely on the grounds that they don't have the names. I've urged people who feel intimidated from posting and don't want to use their SL names to write me at [email protected] and I will summarize their comments if they are relevant to actual discourse and not just the usual silly rant about my mental health and my cats' brand of petfood. (Yes, Nolan, it's Alley Cat, the generic brand.)

Um, Kyrah, I cut and pasted that list right off the Linden announcement forums. It's not my list. It's the list of people who won the dwelloper. Geez, you're stupid. If I somehow cut and paste wrong, geez, shoot me, but I don't see you on there.

Yes, South is probably the most top producing traffic -- and I dare say sales -- sim there is, by a guy that few people really know because he just doesn't bother with the forums (God bless him, he has a Second Life and doesn't need a Third lol).

My failure to include someone like Forsythia is merely that I don't have the info at my fingertips and didn't want to start writing stuff like "isn't she the elf queen" or something because I'd get it wrong. Haven't had time to log on and check out all these names, more to come. Keep the insertions and corrections coming.

Re: Yumi's comment, "In a lot of the cases, the people whose names you've posted are not the people who created things, but just the people who happen to own the land. For example, Calrathe Charlton. What does she do? Well, she owns the island Bizarre. But a major traffic draw on Bizarre is Curious Kitties - Ameshin Yossarian's store."

Well, I disagree. I see enough creators of inventoriable content here to give pause and correction to the silly idea that it is just "camp chair kings" and I also frankly don't see a landowner as merely that. A person who owns land, commissions a club or mall to be put on it, and finds really top design talent IS a content provider! It's a management job that is hard and really undervalued in SL. This is the hard-working middle class we're talking about -- sim management, event organizers, etc.

My point, Yumi, is that it favours land barons because these land barons on it, for the most part, whether Anshe Chung or these others you mentioned, aren't just low-life speculators and flippers of parcels. They MANAGE. They plan and execute themed worlds and interesting club and shopping sims. Indeed they SHOULD be incentivized. Indeed that's what IS worth developing in online worlds where ordinary people want to live -- not be in an endless beta test with sandboxing geeks.

Geekworld has plenty of its own incentives. You're forgetting, first and foremost, the miles and miles of ad copy they get out of Hamlet's blog -- which had Max Case featured many times, and Frans Charming and Aimee Weber and all the rest, over and over, for their content creation. Imagine a five-part series JUST on HUD or JUST on architecture -- it's mind-numbing. These people have WAY more than their share of ink on the company's dime.

If you also look at the games contest which gives the winners a sim, you have to admit they have gotten the greatest of prizes -- free land, that costs a whole bunch to buy. When you add to that the non-profit rate that some of the pets have enjoyed on their projects, it might be more visible to you. To be sure, the list of winners in those venues is shorter, but then, when you think that my dwelloper award was all of $37.12 or something most months, that really ought to put it into perspective.

You're right that if something is viewed as "favouring land barons" the Lindens, egged on by their pets in the FIC and SIC, are likely to whack at it hard, and that's partly why they are ending it. As I've often pointed out, they are always about breaking the back of the land dealing class.

But they are the backbone of the BUSINESS of Second Life which is, whatever you want to whine about the importance of creativity and sandboxing and geeking, about BUSINESS. And BUSINESS, to be worthy of the name, has to have this funny thing I like to call CUSTOMERS. There just aren't the CUSTOMERS for high-end art stuff and geekiness such as to sustain a world this big and expensive.

My point in publishing this annotated list and analyzing it is to show a) that the people who provide a great deal of the "worldmaking" of SL are in this list b) that they create very compelling content, be it inventoriable like skins or non-inventoriable like a themed sim or rental housing; and c) many of them are unknown on the forums, not FIC, and therefore underappreciated as to their role and d) most of all, they are not people who just crassly put out camp chairs and casinos -- those who *only* do that either aren't on this list or at least way down on it.

djangone gjellerup

Near-to-utter noob here. Here's an idea: edit your posts. Cut out half the words to start with, then cut the remainder in fucking half again. Get to the point. For fuck's sake.

Now to less constructive matters:

Jade Steele--Co-owner of Dreamer's Escorts, along with husband Aiden Whatsisname.

Prokofy Neva

Year-long resident here. Here's an idea: shut the fuck up. I am not required to edit or cut my posts to suit your tastes. Go read something as long as your attention span, like the back of my hand.

Go construct your own blog, asshole.

As to any additions/corrections to this list -- keep them coming. I'm absolutely confident from eyeballing some in the FIND list inworld that these do not include exclusively camp-chair low-life scum, but on the contrary include many hard-working club owners and entertainment managers just like this Dreamer's Club which I visited which has a lot of nice features and offers. Anyway, what I can't do is spend the time to personally update/correct/fill out this list so I invite everyone else to help to get a picture of our world, and how it is being destroyed.

djangone gjellerup

That last paragraph is a good example of burying a simple thought in excess verbiage. Read it again: what do you really say?

I'd love to read what you have to say. But you frustrate the reader.

I apologize for venting on your comments section.

Prokofy Neva

If the reader is frustrated, they can go look for other sites with the kind of pre-digested pablum that is all too common in this ADD online-addicted distracted entitlement-happy multiverse.

I'd suggest the Herald, which under Walker is getting really good at delivering shiny pre-masticulated chunks for those unwilling to look at posts bigger than their tiny avatar hands.

I'm not here to provide you with a clipping service.

Flyingroc

Hi hi. Yes, I co-own Heisenberg Casino in Ohno... ugly is in the eye of the beholder, of course. :-) I have a money ball (not camping chairs) in the casino, mostly done to gain visibility in Find rather than get the DI award (this is only my 2nd time to get it).

Yes, I script too, and do some small time land trading, etc.

Cocoanut

As far as I can tell, if the people (i.e., the "masses") like it, then a large percentage of forum regulars are agin' it.

This includes clubs, games, garage sales, malls, money balls, non-creative contests, and people who deal in land.

It leaves as acceptable their own products, plus their own events they consider worthy based on cultural, educational, creative or charitable causes, as well as all Linden-sponsored events. If they put up money trees, that is good; if clubs put up money balls, that is bad. If casinos have free slots, it's the end of civilization as we once knew it in beta.

If the people (i.e., the masses) are against something (like the Impeach Bush signs), then the signs must be a good thing, according to a large percentage of forum regulars. Because everyone knows the people are dumb. I got it - must be free speech!

If the people want something (like ratings bonuses), then they are "gaming" that thing, and it's a bad thing to want. If the people pay for more than one account and actually use what comes with those accounts, they should be flogged in the public square.

If the people want an events schedule they can actually use to put their events on, it's because their idea of "events" is faulty (i.e., includes Tringo), and causes eyebleed and profound psychological distress among more refined residents.

If the people catch on to favoritism or corruption in any Linden system, they are just too unenlightened to understand why that is okay in SL, though unacceptable everywhere else in the world.

coco

Prokofy Neva

Good summary, Coco, covers just about everything, and could be extended to a discussion of taste along the lines of the "Bobos in Paradise" concept if you know that (amazon.com it).

Of course, RL works this way too. There are always the cheerleaders and the jocks and the frat boys, and the science nerds and the geeks and the hippies and goth and such. And there always people succeeding for no reason other than their good looks, or their coolness, or who they know, but also because they might just be more talented and good at networking. That's fine, that's just how life is.

The difference in SL is that it is a tiny, vicious microcosm of this phenom of the kewl kids. They aren't content with being on top, or being the best, or getting the lion's share, they want to suck up all the oxygen in the room, squeeze you to death AND trample on you. It's insane. Because you're their customer too.

I could understand being philosophically opposed to camp chairs or Tringo or yard sales or sex balls, and wishing to make your own world without that. But why go about doing that by killing all those other things? It's the epitome of intolerance.

And it can only be explained by the economic factor, fear of loss of market share I guess, the belief that other sectors and tastes and classes will drive away business for the elite. They'd like to keep it a gated community, a garden party for the preppy set and make it ONLY like that.

And they may get their wish...

Rhiannon Chatnoir

Forcythia Wishbringer owns the Elf Clan group sims, which at this point number 4 in total. Originally the group was part of the old-grid Darkwood sim elven landscape (I am a land owner in Darkwood.) It grew from it's roots there by slowly creating a community, holding events and fostering a network for members and a good stumbling block for the newbies that would wander over from Ahern. The group is now over 400+ members and still manages to do these things and now with an even bigger extended 'elven', fantasy themed community in which she also rents land and merchant areas. The whole thing is overseen by her and Wayfinder Wishbringer.. yes, I guess you could call them 'the king and queen of elfdom.' But they have contributed to the SL world at large by providing places/content like the Elven Glen sim(s).

And, funny enough.. IRL she is one of the 'older women' that has slowly become quite successful and even holds the adoration of quite a lot of the 'tekkie' twentysomthing males who find a home within the group by being able to foster and live out some of the more 'game-like' fantasy themes that SL.. since it is not a 'game'... (hmm) does not encourage. She has become a nurturing and respected matron to her group's members in fact. I guess akin to 'Wendy' amongst the 'lost boys' in Peter Pan.

She is a woman I hold a lot of respect for in-world and happy to call a friend.

Prokofy Neva

Rhiannon, that's a very interesting post about a world-within-a-world of SL that in many ways seems bigger than the sprawling, suburban world of SL itself.

Would you say the the end of the dwellopers is going to impact the elven lands adversely? Will there be ways to pick up the slack?

Yumi Murakami

Regarding the comment about "owning land and commissioning stuff to put on it", you're right that that CAN be a skilled job. Unfortunately it isn't always done with skill, and usually (like most things in SL) the tendering process isn't up to scratch and tends to leave the buyer nursing burned fingers and/or generalised resent that's acted on in various ways.

Another possible defence for the loss of DI is the idea that it's a "Development Incentive". Looking at the list above, most of those people - and the things they run - have been around for months or even years. It's hardly a "development incentive" if all you have to do to get it is stay as you are, now is it?

Prokofy Neva

Yumi, I disagree. Not everything has to be 100 percent perfect, 100 percent beautiful, the A-team, etc. It's good if there is plenty of space in a growing and changing platform like this for FREEDOM and that means freedom to be amateur, tacky, and even fail, too. If it is only the best of the best, it limits the start-ups and the audience. Part of the joy of SL is that anybody in theory can come in and have a SECOND life -- remember that concept? And that amateurs who are stock clerks or bank clerks or something by day can be dress designers or disc jockeys or real estate tycoons by night. And that energy should still be made available.

The idea that all these people "stayed the same" doesn't wash with me, either. Each one of these lots, to keep that traffic has to constantly jump over their own knees to compete. I can only surmise that you haven't ever tried to run an event or keep a parcel with traffic going on it in SL. It's a tremendously hard job. You have to think up something every day, and like a colicky baby, no remedy ever works twice. The camp chair disease forced many people like me, who refused to use them to invent other things (not only because they create an atmosphere of stupidity, but because they just cost more money than you can get back!)

I honestly don't care if the Lindens stop giving me my grand $33.17 US or $77.19 or whatever per month. Obviously, whoop-de-do, I didn't go wild and spent it all in one place, tier. But it isn't much tier and there are less frenetic ways to make the same kind of tier. What I do want them to do is to stop their DIS-incentive that comes with all kinds of things, ranging from letting the FIC run roughshod over the forums, to setting up mentors with sweet insider deals to pipeline their stores to newbs, to competing with resident businesses or even destroying them needlessly, to making radical shifts that seem ill-advised and ill-timed even if the rationale is their own running in the red.

Everybody always has lots of prescrptions for how to make a money sink for MY money, not their own, to take away an incentive for ME to run myself ragged, not to work themselves, for THEM to get paid, not me. So I've learned to take a very weather eye to all these forums pundits and pay attention to what keeps people in the game: social circles that people create or plug into as they follow friends from other games and how to keep them both open and alive.

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