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02/12/2006

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Brace

Amen.

Are they really considering getting rid of stipends?? That is absolutely foolish.

So I pay $75.00 USD/year and what do I get for it?

I lived off my stipend when my business took a fatal hit due to P2P. Like many others I host events and pay the prize money out my own pocket. There are many others like myself who use stipends and/or our businesses to fund the things we want to do.

I'm not getting the reason for chopping out stipends. I agree with you comepletely: we DO need our free chips, or goodie bag or whatever as a thank you for stepping up to the plate and actually going premium.

I LOVE the idea of making file size a determiner for how much you pay for upload. We'd see a stop to all those humongous textures lagging everything right quick, thats for sure! Excellent idea!

*sighs* I hope you DO listen Vasudha, and GET your hands on the REAL info and stats.

Prokovy lives this stuff day in and day out, and so do many others. This posting right here is a gold mine of important info for you - use it.

Prokofy Neva

Thanks for those comments, Brace, I hadn't thought of using the stipend for prizes, but yes, I remember actually when I use to do this when I had a club. It's very important for events-organizers trying to do activities to which those on basics come.

As I read the forums, I see the usual suspects, like Weedy Herbst, are taking an aggressively anti-stipends position, possibly in the genuine belief that it "harms the economy and causes inflation" but also quite likely in a desire to slam anybody who isn't a creator-fascist. Creator-fascists who have no expenses and who merely wish to compel everybody to make as they do, or buy, or die, don't mind losing the stipend, though Coco rather pointedly -- and aptly! -- asked what Weedy does now with her stipend -- gives it to charity lol?

So I can only pointedly keep asking the question: *just how many premium accounts are there?* Just what is the payout the Lindens make in $2000/month stipends each week? I'll bet it is a fraction of the payout to basics, no? And a fraction of other budgetary items? The Lindens guard this information carefully -- if they routinely gave it out, the contrast between that figure (it was 20 percent back in May-June) and the figure of basics among the 130,000 will be a very stark contrast.

It's a figure that reveals that in this game touted as a land game, not that many people come in and buy land. Most of the land is held in the hands of a few, like a Latin American dictatorship.

Most importantly, we need to see how many of the premiums buy land; of these, how many own more than 512. When we see the premiums who tier large amounts of land, we are looking at the people who pay the Lindens' their salaries. So they really need to view this "kickback" of $7.00 US per month (if on a quarterly subscription) as a tiny incentive.

The Lindens should not be looking to remove tiny incentives from the doers of this game. They should be looking to stop the land glut that devalues a chief commodity in the game and undoes the hard work of people trying to make the money in it -- which ultimately is money for them as it means tier and more hours in the game.

The basics need their $50 -- there can't be any cutting of slack there, I guess -- but with this plan to feed the masses subsidized stuff like that, the Lindens are essentially franchising off the job of taking care of all these people and orienting and entertaining them -- and paying the incentive of just $500/week to a small number of people for doing that.

I guess my son playing on the Teen Grid summed it up for me. I guess for a long time, I have perceived the $2000 a month as something I always tried to cash out into USD as quickly as possible, so that I could then essentialy pay for the subscription itself, so that I would feel that at leat that monthly cost was out of the way.

When I told my son they'd probably end up taking away the weekly stipend, he looked at me startled. "But isn't that what I get paid for my job?" he said innocently. Of course, he perceives coming on SL for hours a day after school and on weekends as a kind of job, a fun job, but still a job -- his job of running clubs, events, malls, whatever, with his friends. They work their asses off, trying to make and sell content, manage properties, hold events, and help newbies -- for hours. To be sure, they are paid for their content if they can create it, but the job of organizing the events, managing mall space, etc. is supposed to be compensated out of the property's income -- and that's not always enough, given the high cost of tier!

If the creator-fascists' answer to this is: but pay your income out of your work in SL and the selling of your content/services, etc. I can only reply that the cost of tier is so high, the other expenses (including having to pay high costs for others' content like houses!) are so high, that the $500 we get is something like a waitress' base pay. If you take a waitress job, the bulk of your salary will come from tips you have to earn yourself. But still, the management pays you a very minimal wage out of which payroll tax is taken. So you might get, say, $4.00/hour, but then you'd still hope to make $150 a shift in tips on top of that, depending on how well you can serve your customers. You wouldn't come to work if you didn't have at least that small basic pay every hour for when no customers come in or the restaurant is on fire.

Is it really too much to expect that someone who takes on the job of tiering land and putting clubs, events, homes, etc. on it as well as content creation and helping newbies gets "paid for a job" this very small amount? Basically, it merely ensures that the hard workers get the same kind of free subscription that the loafers get on their basics, by giving them $7.00 US in free chips they can cash out to pay the quarterly subsription *shrugs*.

Nobody is suggesting that free basics and their $50 stipend should be cut; why have the incentive of the essentially "free" (i.e. paid for by cashing out) premium subscription taken away from the doers of Second Life?

The only reason I can think of the vicious responses that someone like Weedy can muster to Cocoanut's grim -- and accurate -- depiction of herself as the "working middle class" and the stipend as a "salary for her job" is class warfare.

Indeed, I believe this class warfare underlies the forums, is what makes them so resistant to reform, and which explains what on the surface seems like personal animosity, but in reality is driven by actual clashes of class interests.

Content-creators, with absolutely no production costs or very little costs (prims are free, texture uploads are just $10 and mainly come free off the rest of the Internet) and little need for land (they can build in sandboxes, or even sit in PSP outside the game or go on other public/friends' lands or rent for a price less than tier) see those who are not dependent on them as their enemies.

It's hard to conceive of why this is, unless you peer closer at SL.

Why should content creators hate those not dependent on them in another sector? They enjoy an overwhelming lead in the economic race of SL, and their income pours in, because they can spend their time and minimal costs for textures, let's say, then reap endless rewards by selling copies of what they make which cost them nothing other than the time and minimal commissions it takes to upload and sell on SLexchange.com

You would think such marginal costs and such a windfall of profit -- especially since psp! -- would make the creator-fascist class happy, and content, and even expansive in mood. Anyone else having to compete with them in another sector will have huge start-up costs and ongoing costs.

Yet their pride of place does not make them generous in spirit because they fear competition like wildfire. Every new resident, especially a doer on a premium with land to make presence visible with a store or activity, is a threat to the market share they've managed to wrest out of the game. Every person who gets into a sector free of the cycle of create-buy-create-buy is a threat.

Again, they are called creator-fascists for these reasons:

o Insistence that everyone make stuff or die -- get out if you can't or won't make stuff, so as to avoid the blight of Tringo/camp chairs/money balls.
o Dividing everyone into creators and consumers
o Making freebies that can't be resold and whipping up public hysteria about those freebies on the forums
o Creating a climate of hatred against those who even sell used items
o Whipping up sentiment against yardsales
o Putting even freebies meant to "benefit the public" on non-modify so that the public can't even modify their creations
o Charging very high costs relative to their production costs, especially given the endless sale of copies issue
o Closing off information channels, alternative information, dissent, criticism
o Stifling any consumer advocacy movement that tries to get going
o Arranging society into guilds with rigorous corporativist notions of organization, and a rigid, hierarchical apprentice system
o Rigidly insisting on "quality" in creations based on their own aesthetic, with no tolerance for the amateur or the C+ student
o Loyality to the authoritarian state of LL as the creators of the platform which enables them to thrive, and criticism only when the federal state curbs some of their own excesses on branding domination
o Destruction of the reputation of others through libel, forums slams, etc.
o Control of a star system that eradicates competition outside the group on the forums
o Together with LL, control of RL media coverage of content creation in SL and branding
o Probably much, much more if I could think of it and had time!

You get the idea. So those who buy land, and perform the creation of content either outside their star and guild system, or create non-inventoriable content like services, club event organizers, rentals, land sales, property management etc. -- these as a class are the class enemies of the content creators because they represent a sector of the economy utterly outside their control, and a sector of the economy that has the potential to seriously undermine their hammerlock on things like media, star system, Lindens and MOST importantly, the new creators coming in who refuse to suck up to the divas!

Fascinating, eh?

So the premium account holders who are in the creator-fascism class of course want to remove the stipend because with their windfall content sales, they don't need it, as they also have no ingame expenses. They don't want club event organizers, or land dealers who cash out the premium to cover the subscription and remove at least one cost from their heavy mountain of costs in the land business, or anybody else to use the stipend to gain freedom from them -- and to get free of the cycle of being forced to buy at a high cost, or being forced to create all the time just to get dressed. Even those very hard at work all the time creating clothing might like a little break now and then to go out and stroll around and shop with their $500 and buy themselves something they themselves didn't make.

I could add that the reason you see a lot of the old content-creator class lining up to be Mentors/Greeters etc is because they want the lock on the newbie stream, not only to get them to buy in their stores, but to weed through them to find the right apprentices to put under their wing.

HiroPendragon

Prok, I didn't get to read every sentence of your post, but I agree very much with the bullet points and the 50% or so that I did read.

I have the same concerns, and it should be obvious to any SLr who turns on land sales on the map and sees a wall-to-wall sell-off.
http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=83978

Prokofy Neva

Wow, that's an interesting post, Hiro! I missed that! It's especially interesting to see how you, as certified FIC and certified SIC, got an answer -- and even a kind of pledge -- that dozens of land barons, huffing and puffing to get Linden attention to this question in personal emails, in inworld communications, in public meetings -- could not get! EVERY time we raise this with Lindens, in public and private, they recite, like robots, that the auction is run on the demand system. But it isn't, as anyone can see. Or it's run on an elusive, virtual kind of demand in keeping with our virtual world, which overlooks the reality of how 5 seconds after this commodity is bought, others can't sell it...and are driven to buy new, fresh, fast MORE land.

I marvel at this, as I always marvel at the features of the class war in our game lol.

You pointed out that hey, with 61 sims (the bulkauction sims) clogging up the market, they could let up the gas pedal, eh? And Robin said, hmm, ok, we'll do that if we see they aren't getting bids, presumably on the next patch.

So, she/they might take a look at this..but guess what, the bulkauction sims are selling like hot cakes! They even had pre-orders in Cyberland and are selling well; Anshe's wierd green-grass islands with the grass even under the water is selling briskly; Marmela's funny-looking but cheaper beach is probably selling out best. And best of all, by having these barons do the parceling and supposedly offering them a buyback of "Governor Linden" land, the Lindens have outsourced one of their programming headaches anc reduced a cost. It's a little wierd seeing continents made up entirely of 4096 islands with few roads or other geographical features, but hey, that's what sells. I only see one asshat who has made a big mountain mall in the middle of it and scared some people off or forced them to build walls.

So the moral of the story is...the bulkauction sold, and the Lindens can only print more.

They don't have to think of the land they sold yesterday way up north in the new new continent...that is SO yesterday's newspaper! It sold once to those people who bid and bought it...so what if it doesn't sell for them now??? The Lindens have absolutely no incentive to stop printing money -- I mean "land" that is like printing money.

They sure as heck have no incentive to stop printing bulkauctions, look how well they sold!

I, too, hope that even without a land barons' boycott of the auctions, they could just stop putting out those $1000 "add-to-my-shopping-cart" sims up north for even 3 days -- 7 or 21 would be even better!. They isn't a demand for them. People bid only because of the game of chicken and "market share". So stop it, already, with the game of chicken, and just slow up.

It's an adjustment that cries out to be done, it costs the Lindens nothing, and the concommitant sale of all that unsold land now in the hands of land barons will help land barons, and help Lindens because all those new customers will pay top-dollar tier instead of discounted tier.

It will also help ordinary people trying to unload their land and move to better quarters, and give cheaper land to newer people with less money.

What's not to like?

HiroPendragon

Well, I've followed up with an email to Robin.

As for when / how Lindens respond to Hotline posts, I think it's more or less when they have free time. *shrug*

Prokofy Neva

Sometimes they have free time for some things and not others. I know Aimee tantrumed on the forums for days when no Lindens responded to her provocative "hotlined" post. And good for them! They don't answer every FIC, but I think statistically, it's easy to show they answer FIC more.

Please use your FIC powers for more public good, now, Hiro and stop Lordfly from harassing yardsalers on the events calender!

Yes, I sent emails to Robin, Daniel, Reuben, hmm...other Lindens, can't remember, over and over, on the land glut thing.

Also asked them repeatedly about the cheat on the telehub buyback.

FINALLY I did get back a kind of partial reply from one of them who said something like no special deal was made, i.e. we'll overlook your real date of purchase to enable you to buy bulkauction sims -- but this Linden also merely acknowledged that cheating could have occurred without their knowledge -- when in fact the cheat is visible to the naked eye for all to see, on a dozen sims.

Oh, well. It's a game. Play it! Or log off!

Brace

I posted something in the Events discussion area to Jesse Linden about the events list. I'll check back in a couple of days to see the response to that.
Course I'm merely NCI not FIC so we'll see....

I'm trying to imagine what life would be like for newcomers without stipends. I suppose I'll blog about it when the pieces in my head finally fall in place, but so far what I see ain't pretty.

There was an accurate depiction of the "build for die" vibe on a recent thread where a new person asked for help on "what to do" in SL.

I thought it didn't take a rocket science degree to help noobies, but apparently it does. "rez a cube or a torus and play around with it" or "go to the library of primitives" seemed to be the bulk of the "help".

Keep in mind, someone that new has no idea what "rez a cube" means and there is no guarantee that they know HOW to get themselves over to the LOP or anywhere else for that matter, or they most likely wouldnt have been posting for help in the first place.

What I've noticed so far is that folks that WANT to build already show up with that desire in mind, and ask you the building questions, NOT the general ok help mee what do I do now stuff.

Many people who come in here want to live a second life - maybe a life they aren't able to have in RL. Get a fancy house, a couple of cars, buncha cute clothes, have a whirlwind social life etc.

I'm not getting how chopping out the premium stipend is going to be helpful to the economy in any way shape or form. 500L/wk is small enough as it is, but its also big enough to subsidize getting started on that second life of your dreams.

How the heck do I know this? Well its exactly what I did two years ago. I wasn't interesting in building, save to get the skills I needed to make boxes to sell my clothes in. My partner Grey Mars who came into SL ahead of me was all about building and got the info he needed to do that.

Stipends make the world go around, as far as I can see. I'm not an economist, but I can see how they circulate and keep things robust and vital.

Either by paying rent, cashing out to for your account, as a more emotional but necessary boost in the form of perk or paycheck, It can be used like I use it to pay out on event prizes, those winners then turn it around by going shopping, pay their tier, rent etc.

Seems like a no brainer to me to keep it going, circulating and revitalizing - but then the track record for LL and no brainers hasnt been all that good.

Carl Metropolitan

You wrote, "Nobody is suggesting that free basics and their $50 stipend should be cut." Actually, there have been several long threads in the forums suggesting just that. The suggestion was to cut out the Basic stipend while leaving the Premium stipend. Or to have the Basic stipend only last for eight weeks or so.

The rationale was that this would reduce the fall of the L$ vs the US$, while providing an incentive for Basic members to move to Premium memberships.

I'm not sure if it would be a net positive or negative. LL does need to increase their turnover of Basics to Premiums--that's true. I'm not sure how much it would impact the money supply. Any estimates of how many Basic accounts are real versus dormant is an exercise in pure imagination. There's just no real data outside of the walls of Linden Labs.

jauani

basic users who can't afford to buy L$ are just not worth the investment. if they can't commit themselves to a second lifestyle after half a year, just cut them off the welfare.

Prokofy Neva

Carl, perhaps there are a few links to people suggesting ALL stipends be cut, but whenever I see this discussion coming from people like Weedy Herbst, I see them viciously hissing at the premium $500 free 512 category, not the basics -- they probably assume basics buy a lot on the Lindex and then are their customers do they don't begrudge them the $50, whereas those with land and $500 are their competitors. I think that's what it amounts to.

If there is a suggestion to keep the premium, kill the basic, or phase out either in 8 weeks, well, maybe that would work in a more robust economy -- we don't have that. And I don't see that as the center of gravity. What I see, over and over again, is people like Lordfly screaming about a $361 Linden -- which you get by buying a year's premium subscription, not by being a basic. You DO NOT hear him say oh, kill off the hundred thousand basics. You just hear him rant about the "blame" to be assumed by those who allegedly bought the $361 Linden. (In fact, premiums do the Lindens and the economy a favour by buying Lindens that cost $2.89 -- exactly what the market is a lot of the time these days.

I agree there is no real data outside the walls of LL, and with good reason, it would kill their current media campaign to prove that concommitant log-ins are up from 4000 to 5000 -- they have Hamlet blogging about this, for example.

I think right now, the Lindens are heavily ideologically wed to the basics. For one, it feeds their capitalist side that needs a huge volume of sales of subscriptions that they can tout as numbers of residents to the media. For two, it feeds their socialist side by making them feel they are "helping the masses" and for three, it feeds their...hmm...exploitative side (is it Medici? Or is it Mussolini?) that takes control over huge swathes of mainly male, 20-something college or college-educated tekkies for enthusiastic, unpaid work which sometimes yields a nugget they can suck up into the client.

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