« Harvitar and Groupitar | Main | Science Fiction Geeks »

07/24/2006

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Mark Wallace

The ACS hasn't directly done a thing for me or my mom, but I don't mind. I don't expect anything of them at this point. What *has* been nice has been to know that they are out there working on something. It might not be the One True Solution, but I think at this point we don't know what the One True Solution is, and it's much more likely that we will have to settle for Many Fairly Close Solutions, in any case. I'm just happy to know people (including the ACS and other organizations) are looking at various aspects of the disease and what might be done about it. So I'm all for the Relay. The ACS hasn't done anything for me directly, but to tell you the truth, it's been great source of moral reassurance to have all this going on around me while my mother's so sick. Now obviously, that's not a very cost-effective way to boost someone's spirits, but I'll take it.

Mark Wallace

NB: We never went to the ACS and asked them for anything is mostly why they haven't done anything for us directly. I don't think that's their mission, really. As you say.

Prokofy Neva

No, it's not their mission. And of course there are all sorts of aspects to subjects like this, and of course the idea that someone is trying to cover the issue of new treatments or new effective drugs is a good one. But if you can, read the media article I linked to, and see the critique of ACS. It really got me thinking.

The Relay continues to bother me because it is virtual. It is not that it is a virtual world. That unreality I'm cool with. It's because walking -- the stand-in for doing something hard, suffering, the key to "awareness raising" -- is virtual. And awareness-raising itself -- paying for doctors to be on panels, or drugs to be tested, also has a kind of virtuality to it.

I don't know if you've been in a situation where you are trying lots and lots of wierd new untested and experimental drugs on loved ones, who suffer all kinds of awful side effects. It's really not fun. You begin to ponder the entire virtuality of the whole medicine thing itself...

I appreciate your willingness to talk about this very hard subject. It's not easy to have your parents seriously ill. I've been through it.

Prokofy Neva

Oops, sorry, lyrics go like this:

"After The Ball is over,
After the break of morn,
After the dancer's leaving;
After the stars are gone;
Many a heart is aching,
If you could read them all;
Many the hopes that have vanish'd
After The Ball."

Prokofy Neva

A few more comments after thinking and researching this a bit more.

I had looked at the website, and felt ACS was big, glitzy, impersonal. I still do. Your mileage may vary. There is a "services" section here: http://www.cancer.org/docroot/shr/shr_2.asp

And some people might find the booklet or groups or empowerment (gah I hate that word) stuff useful. It left me kinda cold, as all these polished, high-sheen things do.

Before Randy Moss comes on here to spin it, one can only say, sure, ACS has a services orientation of sorts as part of its mission.

And, let me hasten that this "new site" I've sited isn't necessarily any "major RL media". It actually looks to be, upon closer examination, to be something a bit sectarian, with even links to wacky stuff like Grocery Warnings about how we can all get cancer from Diet Coke, etc.

But all that aside, that article makes you THINK. You do begin to ponder -- just what is this big business of charity and doctors and drug companies in America? I'm the last one to posit big evil corporate conspiracies as I don't oppose capitalism and corporations like the hard left does on the forums. But I do ask for some things to be more humane and human-sized.

I'm just, in the end, telling of my own personal experience. What I've seen. That this is not an organization, or a cause, that I could go and raise money for in SL for a lot of reasons, some of them merely subjective. Some may find it useful. I don't. I do question also the usefulness of using the medium of SL for this purpose in this way.

I also suspect that the reason the Lindens go for this stuff, grabbing on to Katrina, and ACS, and Friends of the Urban Forest, and anything they can grab, is that they want to be able to face down the inevitable congressional commission that says, wait a minute, you have this big cuddle puddle in the sky with furries and vampires and BDSM and Gor -- what the hell is this all about and why should we allow it on the airwaves?

And then they can say, oh, but oh, Senator, you don't understand, we use SL to raise money for hurricane and cancer victims and just the other day, a man whose legs were horribly mangled in a truck accident or shot off in Iraq was able to find a Second Life as a land dealer or skin maker and make enough to feed his family etc. etc.

So that part of it irks me too.

Cubey

Thanks for reminding us that cancer is simply the result of being wealthy and for showing us all the missed advertising opportunities for businesses wishing to cash in on cancer.

http://www.cubeyterra.com/2006_07_01_archive.php#115381318855997036

Prokofy Neva

Hi, Cubey, a good deal of cancer in America is caused from wealth, yes. From living longer. From smoking. From lifestyle choices. From food additives. All of it comes from having the wealth to even be around longer to die of cancern instead of some other thing; and also to die of things related to lifestyles.

The business that cashes in on cancer isn't mine; it's Linden Lab's. They sell this game better to their venture capitalists and to the media by flogging their do-good work. And Torrid Midnight and other big names in SL also got a huge boost for their business. So I don't know why I'd be singled out to be slammed just because they didn't make it easier for people to put in corporate logos. I run a medium-sized rentals agency, for Christ sake's, not Azure Islands or the Aerodrom, which as a media and a business probably has far more recognition and income than mine.

I didn't notice Anshe around the RLF -- why? Was she asked? Did I miss something?

I don't see how I would "cash in on cancer" by having my logo on some walk for cancer. THIS IS HOW IT IS DONE IN THE REAL WORLD DUH. Businesses turn in their logos to charity ball publications; to signs on windows for walks; for publications/newspapers/ads related to walks/events. It's all normal, it's all expected, and there's nothing evil in it as you imply.

But then, you're a virtual businessman in a virtual world, so you wouldn't understand these things, I guess.

Your friends Linden Lab and Aimee Weber and company are the ones cashing in -- getting reputational enhancement, media coverage, and adding to sales. Not me. So stuff it, Cubey.

Prokofy Neva

>guess it's not surprising that ACS, which is very good at media market share; which has a huge budget and staff; which has a huge web page and P.R. strategy, would grab at Second Life -- it's one of a panoply of new media -- and old media -- methods to deploy in their overall campaigns.

BTW, I want to comment that one of the favourite little legends told about this stuff is that "the residents themselves did it" and "it wasn't ACS that organized this".

I find that completely unconvincing, even misleading. It's because I remember last year, how this stuff got started; how an avatar appeared in the world; how he was the one who was the owner of objects in this big build in the Linden-owned sims; how his owned object was featured in the architectural contest that was held during SOP III -- I just felt it was all hype from the get-go, nothing spontaneous about it whatsoever. There's nothing necessarily bad about that, but to portray the ACS thing in SL as some kind of spontaneous grassroots movement is to utterly overlook how the Future Salon and co. hyped this very early on, as they saw this as a way in which they could SELL THE PLATFORM.

Try to convince me that this isn't ultimately about SELLING THE PLATFORM. You will not.

Cubey

I hope you've notified the cancer researchers of your findings. I wouldn't want them to wast more time searching for the causes of cancer when you've already pinned it down to wealth. I'm sorry that you weren't able to capitalize more on the event and earn more from cancer. But take heart: cancer hasn't been cured yet. You have many more marketing opportunities!

Prokofy Neva

Um, nice try at hysterically exaggerating something I said. In fact, what I said is true, Cubey. Read it again:

"Of course, the cancer that wealthy, sedentary Americans get for their poor lifestyle choices aren't compelling as disease poster-boys like, say, the birth defects that March of Dimes tries to address or cleft-palates that groups of foreign doctors who deliver smiles to children abroad can cure."

You're trying to portray me hysterically and tendentiously -- something you're often prone to do -- as saying that all cancer is caused by excessive lifestyles, when of course I haven't said that. I've said that the cancer Americans get from lifestyles isn't as compelling as other diseases. What, you find something untrue about that statement? Huh?

Furthermore, surely you can see that cancer is a big business in America. And it's a big business, precisely because it affects a lot of people, and they have it because they live long, and suffering things like lung cancer from smoking, which is about their lifestyle.

Now, what, you're going to deny that? Don't be ridiculous!

And cancer, while a big business, for some people, isn't that compelling a cause as other disease-of-the-month clubs that provide lots more compelling, heart-string-tugging pictures. There's something exploitative about this, I find. I question it. I wish to discuss it.

Can you handle that, Cubey? Or does everything have to be set by your rigid, orthodox canon? Only you are noble, and only you "do the right thing for the right reason"? Huh?

My point is merely that the big business of cancer doesn't focus on old geezers dying of lung cancer, but on wan and shaved-head children dying of leukemia or even on other types of diseases -- in fact some people would rather work on diseases they know they can cure, but just need more money, rather than ones that have no cure yet.

Naturally, there are cancers NOT caused by lifestyle, but just genes. Possibly they're caused by environmental toxins, too, which is another byproduct of a wealthy, industrial, society.

I'm surprised you can't see that.
You must be blind.

Um, I didn't need to capitalize on any event. Trust me, if I did, I would have either become the PR agent when asked, or a Team Leader. But I didn't precisely because I felt it was in fact about a lot of people capitalizing on it.

My, you get hysterical and nuts in your responses.

I don't have any need to market around cancer.

Do you?

Prokofy Neva

BTW, Cubey, being as you are some yahoo out there (I have no idea what your A/S/L is and life experience) who hasn't ever heard of the concept of corporate logos, let me explain that this is a normal, time honoured American custom. And for a Canadian who is writing me now in email and ranting at me after reading your selective and tendentious "digest" of my post.

Go read this website please:
http://www.uni.edu/studentorgs/relayforlife/corporate_sponsorship.htm

Um, what do you see there.

Corporate logo sponsorship. Pay $75, get your corporate logo made visible in the RELAY FOR LIFE held on a college campus. Duh. That's how it works DUH.

That's all. Not greed and cashing in on cancer -- unless you think the local businesses like dry cleaners or restaurants or copy shops that these kids in this college town are interested in greed and cashing in on cancer.

What I mean is something like that -- that RFL in SL not be a star turn for top builders, but that local business be given the opportunity to pay $75 and get their logos put up as part of a sponsorship drive.

I don't know why this is rocket science.

It's done in RL all the time INCLUDING WITH THE RELAY FOR LIFE IN REAL LIFE DUH. So why can't we do it in SL? Without Cubey Terra being a total asshole and making it seem like it is the execution of innocents. It's just ignorance and lack of cultural knowledge, I guess.

Here's what they write:

"Corporate sponsors are a valuable asset to the UNI Relay For Life and the American Cancer Society. Monetary donations are the most important because they go directly to the American Cancer Society; however, services and resources from businesses are also necessary to minimize the expenses of the Relay.

Please consider a generous donation from your business or encourage your employer to make a donation. The money is for a very noble cause. There are many advertising and marketing benefits when donating to the University of Northern Iowa Relay For Life."

Are you going to go rant at THEM now for seeking business logos?? Are you going to go rant like a fucking idiot on those local businesses for wanting to put their corporate logo on something related to RLF????

Here's what you get for the Gold $750 donation:

" Gold: $750+

* Your business advertised in pre-event publicity to local media outlets (i.e., radio and TV promotions; newspaper advertisements)
* Certificate of recognition presented to a business representative during opening ceremonies at the Relay
* Your business banner displayed at the event (provided by business)
* Business logo printed on approximately 2,000 t-shirts
* Your corporate logo on newsletters to participants
* Poster in your business recognizing you as a sponsor of the University of Northern Iowa Relay For Life and the American Cancer Society (Provided by us)
* Your business logo on our website that thousands of people will view, with a link to your business’s website
* Recognition on corporate sponsor banner at Relay event
* Receive five complimentary Relay For Life t-shirts
* Pride in knowing you are making a donation to the American Cancer Society to fight cancer"

OK, so why the *fuck* don't we have that in Second Life? That's all. That's all I have been saying for a whole year about this. It's simple.

Instead, we get people with their little cliques and team relays and special private sims having little salons and parties and feting each other.

What I want is a public, open, participatory board inworld or website in which I click, pay the $750, get the gold, put up the corporate logo.

THIS IS HOW IT IS DONE PEOPLE. IT IS NOT EVIL.IT IS NORMAL.

Stan Pomeray

How many years do you have to play SL before you become unable to simply look at statements without becoming hysterical? Maybe I should get some tranquilisers on standby just in case I come down with it.

I jest of course.

Or do I????

SandyJ2007

Prok, you are the most rude hateful person I have encountered. If you do not like Second Life and all you can do is criticize it, why don't you go somwhere else. Why spend so much time where you are miserable. You did not have time to chair the pr for a charity event - probably because you are too busy cutting everyone and everything down and then wondering why people don't want to deal with you. Why don't you leave the non-profits and education alone - at least they are trying to do something constructive with Second Life and complain about people such yourself. You say nasty thing to people's faces, nasty things behind their backs, and on your blog. Do you ever consider you might be hurting someone's feelings - or you must be so nasty and hateful all the way through and you really don't care. Why don't you shut the hell up, take down your hateful blog, and go somewhere else - like back under the rock from which you came.

Squeedoo S.

Prokofy, darling, I think you're thinking a bit too much about this situation. :)

Caliandris

I think people who have dismissed Prokofy's doubts about the American Cancer Society should have a look at the history of cancer treatment. One of the most gifted doctors of cancer patients was Dr Josef Issels, a qualified medical doctor who practised in Bavaria. He took hopeless cases which have a normal remission rate of 2% amd turned that into a 15% remission rate. What did the American Cancer Society do? They blacklisted him. He used homeopathy among other things, shock horror. They blacklisted him what is more without checking for themselves the claims of the clinic. The Bavrian Medical Association arranged for his arrest on trumped up charges, and his clinic was temporarily closed down, while he was held for two years before being exonerated. The Issels clinic is still in existence, run by Josef's son, still getting amazing results with the holistic treatment he pioneered.

see:
http://www.issels.com/Testimonials.aspx

The other person in the 20th century who came up with a innovative cure for cancer was William Kelley, a dentist who cured his own cancer, and that of his wife. He was a dentist, who researched his own illness, and discovered some treatments that had been very little used since the beginning of the 20th century. Patients from all over the place made appointments to see him as a dentist in order to discuss his thoughts on diet and enzymes as cures for cancer. He achieved a rate of 80% remission on cancers which at that time had a 0 remission rate. What did the Us authorities do? He was prosecuted for practising medicine without a licence, and run out of the country, but his work is still saving people today.

http://www.whale.to/cancer/kelley.html

I agree with Prokofy that intention is all. If the American Cancer Association has made gaining money the aim of the organisation, instead of the aim that should be its true purpose, to cure or eradicate cancer, then it has lost its way, and no amount of money will help it find it again.

No organisation should be above criticism, however benign its reputation, or the work for which it is renowned. None is immune to mistakes and misjudgements.

Tad

I think you are the most interesting read of all the bloggers related to SL. I initially got a SL account thinking it would be an interesting way to keep up with a friend who had moved out of town. After trying it a few times, I found plain text messaging more interesting than IM through SL. With TM it seems like your brain fills in all the visual stuff to make the conversation more complete. In SL, the silly looking avatars and their gestures distract from the conversation. After giving up on using it as a means of keeping in touch with my friend, I explored some more in SL and was just bored. I find following the blogs about SL much more interesting than SL itself now. As to a previous comment, interesting how you can be called rude and hateful by a person who proceeds to then state rude and hateful comments.

forseti svarog

By the CNN tower did you mean my CN Tower?

The story behind it is actually simple... we thought of some key visuals about canada... the CN tower, the gardens in ottowa, the mountains and forests, and the cold outdoors (hence the ice skating pond). No symbolism beyond that. It's certainly not the fanciest build in RLF.

Regarding Torrid, you're going to argue that I'm circling the wagons again but really, I think she's put in a lot of work for a charitable cause. I have no problem with your asking tough questions about that charity, but I don't really think Torrid deserves criticism here. It's silly to claim that her motivations were driven by a desire for reputational enhancement. I think she just wanted to help a cause. In any case, neither one of us can speak for her.

Since RLF happens for a lot less money than 30-40K (raised) in lots of small town around the US if not the world, what's wrong with having one more in the virtual world? I agree that there is higher excitment because it is "shiny"... but do not really see the problem with that. I feel like you're stretching to find something to criticize (not talking about your questions about ACS itself, but the event). I think it's cool that people can attend from all over the world. I don't have a problem with creating some nice spectacles for people to gawk at, experience, and hopefully convince them to give some money to a cause.

Marc Sirkin

I thought this was a terrific post to be honest and blogged some reactions that I hope are appropriate.

Stan Pomeray

"As to a previous comment, interesting how you can be called rude and hateful by a person who proceeds to then state rude and hateful comments."

Yes indeed - "Everyone's entitled to their own opinion provided it happens to coincide with mine" - everyone's getting into that these days, aren't they?

There's an abbreviation for people who subscribe to that. It goes "TAPAHAFU", but I won't go into that because it might be rude and hateful.

:P

soft_tabs_ap

[url=http://linux.kmdi.utoronto.ca/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=6]adderall[/url] [url=http://pact.insider.org/bugzilla/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=21]nexium[/url]
[url=http://linux.kmdi.utoronto.ca/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=7]adipex[/url] [url=http://pact.insider.org/bugzilla/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=23]oxycodone[/url]
[url=http://linux.kmdi.utoronto.ca/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=8]bontril[/url] [url=http://pact.insider.org/bugzilla/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=24]oxycontin[/url]
[url=http://linux.kmdi.utoronto.ca/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=9]butalbital[/url] [url=http://pact.insider.org/bugzilla/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=25]percocet[/url]
[url=http://linux.kmdi.utoronto.ca/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=10]cipro[/url] [url=http://pact.insider.org/bugzilla/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=26]ultracet[/url]
[url=http://linux.kmdi.utoronto.ca/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=11]claritin[/url] [url=http://pact.insider.org/bugzilla/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=27]valtrex[/url]
[url=http://linux.kmdi.utoronto.ca/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=12]clenbuterol[/url] [url=http://pact.insider.org/bugzilla/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=28]vicodin[/url]
[url=http://linux.kmdi.utoronto.ca/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=13]clonazepam[/url] [url=http://pact.insider.org/bugzilla/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=29]winstrol[/url]
[url=http://linux.kmdi.utoronto.ca/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=14]diazepam[/url] [url=http://pact.insider.org/bugzilla/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=30]zoloft[/url]
[url=http://linux.kmdi.utoronto.ca/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=15]didrex[/url] [url=http://pact.insider.org/bugzilla/showattachment.cgi?attach_id=31]zyrtec[/url]

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name and email address are required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Blog powered by Typepad

Advertisements

Ads.text

  • Ads Text
    google.com, pub-2776838938932602, DIRECT, f08c47fec0942fa0