Scene: an overcrowded meeting of the Society for Virtual Architecture. Instead of 20-30 people, a popular speaker attracks 40 or 50. The sim is overcrowded where we normally meet, and neither the meeting's chair nor the speaker or regular members can even enter the sim, shared with other residents anyway on the mainland.
A proposal is made to go to the IBM's four-corner theater sim to reassemble. But after a reconnaissance mission is sent, it rapidly becomes clear that the stadium-style seating isn't right for the meeting -- too far apart, and impossible to hear on the ground. Up in the air, it is a little better, but four-corner tips of sims always create problems -- people sink, people try to sit on one sim and get errors that they are in the other sim; they can't hear the speaker. There is no TP, no repeaters, as it was unplanned. No one knows that the seating is up in the air. So the organizers opt to land on the ground where it is easier to spread out on one sim, where any spillover can come on the adjacent second sim, and that if it becomes necessary, the group can move to the four corners and guide people still arriving to go up in the air.
But what happens is what so often happens in the awful group dynamics of SL. One person -- or more -- suffers from what I call obstructivitis in a group setting. I see it happen all the time. Instead of grasping that others have already understood a problem, the obstructivist keeps banging on the drum. Long past the sell-by date, he is still banging on everybody to do something he wants, not understanding that people are chosing other options because they have other priorities.
The inability to enter a multi-lateral situation, as it were, is one that some people suffer deeply from in SL. This may be due to a childhood window for learning and feeling empathy that is missed; it may be simply due to being an arrogant asswipe. There's one in every SL meeting. I remember once sitting on a sim trying to give a talk in the Shockproof fair for non-profits. I kept trying to speak and this girl kept whining that the SEARCH PLACES was not showing a list of all the land in the land preserve. Of course it was. For everyone else. Just not for her. After a few rounds of patient explanation, we urged her to give up and consult live help. Instead of quietly pursuing the problem -- her problem alone -- she kept jamming on the group to prove that she was right. She also contacted live help and got someone barely older than herself in SL days who told her that she was right, the search of the land wasn't working.
Of course it was. She had an expectation to see 20 parcels turn up in search that were named exactly as her search term, SL Public Land Preserve. She hadn't made the mental leap to know that the search would turn up everything with those words in their name, so that some other things NOT that would show up and that some things in the preserve tagged that in their description, but named other things, would also show up. Her search results were staring her right in the face. But they didn't look the way she expected. Instead of sitting with that quietly, she kept jamming on the group over and over again, with everyone trying to shush her. People trying to solve technical, exasperating problems like this in SL are a huge liability in every group because they get very irritable as well as even more tenancious and can't see reason.
Another time, in a group meeting trying to discuss the 7 Wonders, a group which had already worked out a system to go explore the candidates were all preparing to divvy up the list for assignments -- you go there, I'll go here, and let's IM each other and see if we have anything worth including. A deep sufferer of obstructivism arrives and begins trying to stop the group's cooperation. First, she is late and demands a full notecard of the last meeting, not realizing there is one being made in a notecard box in front of her. And that it's not relevant anyway because the list she wishes of candidates is in fact in the room chat at that moment being divvied up. If she would just shut up and join one of the groups, she'll soon have the list to look at one way or another -- meanwhile, 20 minutes have gone, and people want to get going. Rather than going along with the group's already existing plan and cooperation, she obstructs -- I need to see the list, we didn't agree, I have to see this list, why wasn't I shown this list, blah blah blah until the meeting organizer finally just logs off in disgust.
There are two kinds of people in this world. Those who bully and harass restaurant waiters if they bring something that isn't quite right in a meal, too cold, the wrong thing, not with the right sides, etc. -- and those who just chalk it up to a mistake in the kitchen, accept what is brought to them, and just make a mental note not to go to that restaurant again. They don't think to bully a person bring the food only for some mistake in the kitchen. (I'm one of the latter; I definitely don't believe in EVER harassing restaurant people ever -- if food is bad or sub-standard, don't eat there again, or quietly contact the manager but don't bully wait staff).
So here we all are in the eternal cyber soup of SL having a blast....
Unfortunately, I can't provide a full transcript of this meeting because the speaker requested after she began talking to make it off the record. All these meetings are public and on the record; it is stated at the beginning. But at the speaker's request, we cut it off here.
I publish this because I want people to understand what happens in SL. I want not only engineers but psychologists to study these problems. I want people trying to hold events to think about how to optimize these events and solve these recurring problems.
Big, giant stadium seating isn't a solution because of the chat range. Mileage on chat range really, really REALLY seems to differ. A tekkie will insist that with a shout anyone can use a stadium to satisfaction. But real events organizers with real field experience know it doesn't work that way: some people crash merely because it is a 4-corner sim. Some sink into the ground. Some can't sit and can't get past error signs. Some hear some of what is said, but not all. It's a real challenge.
So, I give you my annotated copy of this very difficult meeting:
You: Hi
You: is this a theater?
You: I just see lots of snow men
jeremy Neumann: hey all...
You: is this like a stadium?
Copper Surface: Ah much better.
You: I can't see it yet
DJ Waki: bit like heathrow today :)
jeremy Neumann: they have a couple of huge auditorium - but this one has been christmastised since I came before...
You: maybe overadvertised a bit he he
DJ Waki: lol
DJ Waki: alll good
Copper Surface: Oh you know, those IBM folks like writing "IBM" in all sorts of places...
Tab Scott: thanks again Scope lol
You: Hmm I guess she didn't have much choice on the colour scheme, had to be blue!
Scope Cleaver: That should be enough space
Ravenna Soothsayer: lol
You: hmm are we going to sit in the snow?
Tab Scott: Hey Keystone
Jessica Qin: phone
jeremy Neumann: I have some self destructing chairs - environmentally friendy...
Zoe Visconti: hi :)
Maczter Oddfellow: if we need to fit more people, we should probably move to the sim borders and distribute ourselves :)
jesz Murakami: not me its real sno outside --just had a blizzard
Elektra Hesse: hi :)
Vittorio Barbarino: hello everyone
Zoe Visconti: hey tab :)
Jessica Qin: well -- we could go to a theatre
DJ Waki: hey vittorio
You: well are we IN a theater?
Jessica Qin: liek the one in the middle
You: I was trying to land on one
Jessica Qin: :)
Tab Scott: Hey Zoe (looking around for you)
Jessica Qin: this is a theatre
Jessica Qin: hey Tab :)
Dore Dorado: let's go skating!
You: ok well this works ok if everyone can hear
Scope Cleaver: I can hear
You: but we need to sit down, our little avatar legs are tired : )
Dore Dorado: i'm cold.
Jessica Qin: basically, this complex was designed to have three major theatre complexes
You: but is this like seating?
Jessica Qin: let's go to the middle
You: I mean, the seating of the future lol
Copper Surface: Good lord, that's one giant prim.
Tab Scott: Jessica, hello.
Shaun Altman is Online
Jessica Qin: no -- the idea was that the tehatres woul be modular
You: yes you can't even get it all in view
Jessica Qin: theatres*
Jessica Qin: so we can put a christmas party in here
Dore Dorado: daniela, i thought you were on skates!
You: oh ok
Daniela Swenson: haha
Jessica Qin: clean it up fast and install a different kind of theatre / seating arrangement
You: so it was like some snowman contest?
You: well can you install something more intime?
Jessica Qin: among other this, yes
You: as it were?
You: lol
Ludo Merit: Hey, our speaker is here, we're here, what's the problem?
Jessica Qin: sure -- let me look fo ra spot
You: There isn't one
You: everyone is just getting the word to move here
Copper Surface: Umm. Anyone chairing this event?
You: Um, yes Copper
Something Something: We can't set landmarks here, so we can't make a landmark giver for the folks stuck at the old location.
Maczter Oddfellow clears his throat
You: We're trying to catch everybody up to the move, hang on
You: we sent out notices
Maczter Oddfellow: should we move to the sim borders and spread aroud
Maczter Oddfellow: at the four corners?
Something Something: Not everyone is a group member though
You: ok so Jessica do you have another place for seating or can this work
You: yes we realize Something
Unquotable Raven: you could make something that on-click, llMapDestination :o
You: but most people already arrived at the first location
Copper Surface: Righto.
Something Something: ah
Jessica Qin: sorry y'all -- if i'd known we were meeting here
Jessica Qin: i would hae installed something in advance
Badabing Pro: thnks something
You: that's ok
You: let's just get seated here
You: it's got some sort of thing to sit on
You: and we can stand anyay
You: go ahead and get started
You: In case you are just dropping from the sky and not the Events list originally
WarKirby Magojiro: Ack
WarKirby Magojiro: no scripts
You: this is Jessica Qin
You: let me shout too
WarKirby Magojiro: otherwise I would conjure up some seats
You shout: This is Jessia Qin the Lead Architect for IBM in SL
Jessica Qin: hi
Brooke Thurston: Nice to meet you Jessia
You shout: And this y ou see is the four-corner sim for IBM's 12 islands
Maczter Oddfellow shouts: GAH! SIM BORDERS PEEPS! region is full now!
Daniela Swenson: hello Jess
Multi Gadget v1.50.0 by Timeless Prototype
You shout: And yes, this is the site of the famous Mega Prim as you can see as well
You: So this is just an informal meeting
Maczter Oddfellow shouts: LET'S USE THE FOUR CORNERS AS DESIGNED! :)
You shout: We are ON the four corners
You shout: are we not?
Maczter Oddfellow shouts: NO. WE ARE NOT.
Something Something: Nope...
Copper Surface: No we're not.
Sophie Zhu: hi scope
You shout: in any even tthis is an even MORE informal meeting than planned
Scott Woollahra: we're all in one sim
You shout: so please, just have Jessica talk for a efw, then we can ask questions
You: well we're fitting ok
Scope Cleaver: Hello Sophie *smiles*
WarKirby Magojiro: They meet in the centre of the circle
Paradox Olbers: west is 4 corner
Maczter Oddfellow: THE ACTUAL FOUR CORNERS ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STADIUM
Copper Surface: Psst. Jessica, why don't you move to the corner, and everyone can follow.
Maczter Oddfellow: UNDER THE IBM SIGN
You shout: OK WE GOT THAT BUT THERE AREN'T MORE THAN 50 PEOPLE
Dings Digital: which unrezzed object is the ibm-.sign
WarKirby Magojiro: There are no seats in the centre
Zoe Visconti: unexpected crowd :)
You shout: Look, there are 40 and 50 is probably what it is set at?
Macphisto Angelus: lol we dont get tired standing. :P
You shout: so Jessica go for it
Jessica Qin: this is far from ideal -- my regular computer died so i'm using my kids' machine
WarKirby Magojiro: heheh
You shout: just be sure to use sHOUT
Decka Mah is Offline
WarKirby Magojiro: most unfortunate
WarKirby Magojiro: can you greate a seatin area in the centre?
Maczter Oddfellow is ready to kill
Ludo Merit: Why can't we just stand and listen?
You: We are already seated here, we don't need to worry about the four corners with just 40-50 people
Maczter Oddfellow: if we sit at the actual sim intersections, we can let more people in.
You: it's only on the mainland it craps out at 30
Maczter Oddfellow: for the lvoe of god
You: Maczter, we don't need to try to move all these cats and herd them
Maczter Oddfellow: move to the corner and we won't have to worry about it
Maczter Oddfellow: this is silly
You: Maczter, please it's not necessary
You: if it becomes necessary we can move
You: but we've spent 15 minutes on this
You: there are only 40 people on the sim that can hold 50 it's an island
Jessica Qin: lets go to the theatre in IBM 2 and 3
Maczter Oddfellow: the corner is only 40m or so infornt
Maczter Oddfellow: it's not like people can't follow
Macphisto Angelus: /sigh
You: It's hard to get people to move when you moved them once already
WarKirby Magojiro: Sounds good
WarKirby Magojiro: lead the way
You: Jessica if you have a better place to move them by all means lead the way
Transparent Banshee: Hi Dekia
Transparent Banshee: Delia
Delia Lake: hi, Trans
Aleister Kronos: Sod this for a lark - I've found it most informative already... ta ta!
You: Look, I know it is frustrating, but if you have people already gathered in one place and it's working I would get started.
You: there's 36 on the sim that holds 40 or even 50
Keystone Bouchard: yeah - I think we're ok here - but did Jessica leave?
You: well she may have crashed I am trying to reach her
Macphisto Angelus: with more bailing every minute :P
Keystone Bouchard: ok
Paradox Olbers: then if lag builds, move
You: Macphisto, if you have a better idea, implement it please?
You: it's not laggy yet, and no one is being turned away due to a full sim
Macphisto Angelus: OK.. how about let's get going on this.
Macphisto Angelus: people are here
Macphisto Angelus: people are seated
Macphisto Angelus: we are under capacity
Macphisto Angelus: all in favor?
Keystone Bouchard: Macphisto....Jessica crashed
Macphisto Angelus: ah
You: Macophisto, patience please
Iflipti Warrior: aye
Brooke Thurston: aye
Ravenna Soothsayer: frickin aye
Macphisto Angelus: i have patieince
Brooke Thurston: lol
Macphisto Angelus: just sayin someone needs to figure out if we are going or staying.
You: Macphisto, we're working on that
You: Jessica is back on, and she is suggestinganother sim
You: if you are impatient, this may not be the event for you : 0
Copper Surface: Ugh
You: ok this is better
You: let me get the others
You: but it's up in the air
You: so people can't see it
Tab Scott: welcome Zoe
Zoe Visconti: thanks :)
Maczter Oddfellow: I apologize for being so stubborn about the four corner thing, but moving to a location where as many people could attend as possible seemed kinda like the whole reason the meeting was moved in the first place, but everyone isisted on staying huddled in the middle of the sim even after we moved.
Maczter Oddfellow: insisted*
WarKirby Magojiro: Come sit, Kit
You: Maczter could you hear that there is no need for a four corners when there is only 50 people?
Vittorio Barbarino: thanks
You: we were trying not to delay further
You: it's not helpful to keep pointing out the obvious
Maczter Oddfellow rollse his eyes and shuts up
Scope Cleaver: Hey Zoe :)
You: this is still not a four cournrs either, it's just got more easy seating
Zoe Visconti: hey scope :)
Copper Surface: Whos's wearing that giant sphere?
Maczter Oddfellow: we are AT the four corners, Meridian
Zoe Visconti: did you enjoy the wine? :)
Maczter Oddfellow: do you know how to view property lines?
You: Gosh, do you think?
You: I do know that
WarKirby Magojiro: Ack
Scope Cleaver: lol
Maczter Oddfellow: then why do you say this isn't a four corners?
Maczter Oddfellow: we are right on the intersection of the four corners
Maczter Oddfellow: look at your map
Vittorio Barbarino: hi Scope
Scott Woollahra: there's still a lot of people at the other ibm location
You: Hi, please, everyone try to be patient
Scope Cleaver: Hey Vittorio, nice to see you :)
Keystone Bouchard: yes, someone go back and tell them
Dominique Severine: ty
Keystone Bouchard: then we can get started
You: It's very hard when you have 25 people all banging on your asking you for TPs
WarKirby Magojiro shouts: Comeone want to fly back and tell them?
You: and so much impatience
You: we're trying to make it possible for more people to participate
You: try to be cooperative
Kyleus Musketeer: Tada!
You: I am trying to notify all the groups now stand by
Kyleus Musketeer: ummm
Kyleus Musketeer: is there a lion on my head?
Dominique Severine: ky don't look
Aslan Pertwee: Thanks for the tp
Dominique Severine: there's a lion on your head
Zoe Visconti: hey Keys :)
WarKirby Magojiro: Yes there is
Dominique Severine: no sudden moves
Kyleus Musketeer: or am i just happy to see ya
Dominique Severine hangs the steak on a rope around Ky's neck
Kyleus Musketeer: its the new Aslan hat
Aslan Pertwee: a lion that's head and shoulders above the rest
WarKirby Magojiro: heheh
Dominique Severine: lol
WarKirby Magojiro: Nice accessory
Kyleus Musketeer: a lion that needs to lose a few pounds
Kyleus Musketeer: that tail tickles
Aslan Pertwee: Nah, it's all muscle
WarKirby Magojiro: Aslan, I think he just called you fat
Kyleus Musketeer: he ate a whole village on his way here
Kyleus Musketeer: i saw him
Kyleus Musketeer: not even an offer of a bite
Maczter Oddfellow: FYI. the corner is right about where i'm standing. so if we get full, or even before we get full, folks can spread in a circle around me and distribute among the four sims
Kyleus Musketeer: "would you care for an old persons leg?"
Kyleus Musketeer: nope
Aslan Pertwee: I'm about the eat you if you don't show some respect
Kyleus Musketeer: all about him!\
Dominique Severine wants four sims in a square
Kyleus Musketeer: now we see the violence in the jungle
You: OK Jessica are you there?
Kyleus Musketeer: help help i'm being repressed
You: maczter, we understand what a four corners is
You: but herding the cats into it is a difficult thing
You: we grasped that
Maczter Oddfellow: that's great
Kyleus Musketeer: lol... "cats"
You: that's hwy we moved to the IBM islands in the first place ? hello?
You: why keep banging on that drum?
Maczter Oddfellow: so take advantage of it :P
WarKirby Magojiro: This is a reather interesting use of 4 whole sims
Kyleus Musketeer: this metal floor is a bit... soupy
Aslan Pertwee: Pooley is the same way
You: well but tha's the problem with 4 corners
You: you have all kinds of issues on them
Aslan Pertwee: region borders always are
You: stuff is melting and people can't hear each other anyway
Maczter Oddfellow is usually a really patient guy
WarKirby Magojiro: Sometimes one of the sims will crash
Kyleus Musketeer: ok....lets all gang up on the lion
Keystone Bouchard: Jessica?
WarKirby Magojiro: And a piece of the world simply becomes missing
Kyleus Musketeer: j/k
Loren Milkic: could we get a a breif summary of what this meeting will be about just to know whats going on?
Kyleus Musketeer: dont hog my step, there Miss
You: As the events calendar stated
You: this is an informal gathering
Copper Surface: Hi Coco! ;)
Keystone Bouchard: There's Jessica =)
WarKirby Magojiro: That's what the passage in the event listing is for
Cocoanut Koala: hiya copper!
Copper Surface: How ya been?
You: not Columbia University School of ARchitecture with Cliff Notes
Kyleus Musketeer: ok... who ate my lil cube prim?
You: it's a regular weekly meeting we have
Kyleus Musketeer: anybody?
You: we invite guest speakers
Dominique Severine jabs a bony elbow into Ky the everspeaks' side
Kyleus Musketeer: anybody?
You: we are waiting for one who has log-on and lag problems to get speaking
Jessica Qin: hi all
Jessica Qin: i'm here
Crane Rosmer: How courteous...
Keystone Bouchard: Jessica!!! =)
Loren Milkic: ahh
Kyleus Musketeer: sweet
Loren Milkic: lol
Keystone Bouchard: here we go
You: Jessica, thanks for coming, the floor is yorus
Dominique Severine: Welcome
You: go for it
You: Sorry for the delays we were trying to make it possible for more to hear
Dominique Severine: yay for goths!
Jessica Qin: i've never spoken to a group like this
Dominique Severine adds, "And the ramones!"
Kyleus Musketeer: i'm a visigoth
Jessica Qin: i don't know what conventions you have or what you expect
Cocoanut Koala: im still enjoying using your script, copper
Aslan Pertwee: Fuck damn no build restrictions, I want a chair
Kyleus Musketeer: we expect only the best
Dominique Severine: A little dancing, some 'Sploders and a moneyball is all Jess
Jessica Qin: unless anyone has specific questions
WarKirby Magojiro: Build and script restrictions are annoying
Kvasir Olbracht shouts: woot woot
Kyleus Musketeer: watch your language King of da Jungle
Jessica Qin: i just free associate about shit
Kyleus Musketeer: ooohy free?
WarKirby Magojiro: Sounds good to me
Scope Cleaver: Was there any dilemma in using mega prims?
Keystone Bouchard: I'm ok with that
Jessica Qin: y'all didn't pay money for this, didja?
I didn't read the transcript (there didn't seem to be much point to it) but I was taken aback by your comment on waiters and waitresses. Do you really think the only ways to deal with getting a wrong item is to bully or to be quiet and never return?
Bullying is on its face wrong. But the other option is, too. In essence, you've given the restaurant no opportunity to correct its error, and you've settled for what you didn't want.
What about calmly and politely saying that the item isn't what you ordered, and could you please have what you asked for?
I guess I'm used to seeing your all-or-nothing approach to forum/blog communication, so it shouldn't really surprise me to know you do this elsewhere. It just strikes me as odd. You've set up options where one party is automatically the loser, and won't see any option where compromise or tact allows both parties to be satisfied.
That says something.
Posted by: Lorelei Patel | December 22, 2006 at 01:05 AM
Just followed up trying to get old Mac to see reason here. He's still apoplectic and can't see reason. He imagines I am unable to see reason.
"Although reason is common to all men, most men behave as if they have their own understanding."
He's apoplectic because he couldn't herd a crowd of 42 people into doing what he wanted instantly in the way he wanted.
Meanwhile, the other people are trying to deal adequately with the situation.
All he can keep telling us over and over again while turning beet red is that we must move to the four corners because he says so.
Well, duh, we grasped that. But since we only had 42 people, and only one person (on his chat) appears to have temporarily gotten a sim full message (none of us are getting IMs from people saying that), and because we had the problem of herding other people, and because we had the problem of trying to deal with a crashed speaker who was missing totally, and because we were not wishing to have people not hear and not sink into the ground, we didn't move to the four corners as he wished us to do INSTANTLY or else he'd have a heart attack.
I kept trying to reason with this severely blinkered individual.
As with the chronic Cristiano problem, I just hope others can learn from these problems of obstructivism. There's always someone who imagines they have a better way. I know, I'm one of them. But to keep insisting it when others have something else they're cooking up is obstructivist -- when it comes to mechanical matters like how to have a meeting, where to sit, where to stand.
Tekkies and some fuss-budgets in SL have come to perceive the four-corners option as the best for SL.
But it isn't. Lagging, crashing, error messages, sinking into the ground, and worst of all, NOT HEARING makes it a non-option for many.
I had a chance to prove that this evening as I had the bizarre experience of making a chat lot that didn't show everything in it that was in fact said by everyone because I couldn't hear them. The chat log can only record what I hear, ie what's in range for me. On their end of the four corners, more was said, they could IM me later and even show me THEIR chat log.
On matters like "how to have a world" people can differ. Radically. Violently. But the issue of how to have a meeting is simpler.
Why would someone start holding a meeting 60 meters away from a four corners? Could there be a reason for this?
Yes.
1) They had a crowd around them of 40 people already and were 20 minutes late already. Many were aready saying "let's go with this and only move if indeed the speaker says there is a better option in the air."
2) The main speaker said they'd look into going up in the air to see if the four-corner seating would work -- people really want their seating, and that's the problem the Obstructivist couldn't accept -- people like seating.
3) The Obstuctivist didn't want seating because it's not important to him; but in fact it IS important to lots of people -- it helps them focus, stay less distracted and most of all, turn toward a speaker and focus on listening to them, and moving closer if they get out of chat range.
(By contrast, the 42 people standing and milling around, sinking, moving out of range at the 4 points was hugely annoying and troublesome -- but they couldn't go back to the edges and sit on the seating, they would likely miss some of the chat -- this is a severe problem.)
4) this meeting was a hugely rousing success ANYWAY. Most people at least got to hear MOST of it. But I'm left once again absolutely convinced that the worst piece of software in Second Life is the obstructivist who cannot see the multilateral view of reason and other's comfort levels -- and hence plurality and freedom, and looks at the world through a keyhole.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | December 22, 2006 at 01:15 AM
What about calmly and politely saying that the item isn't what you ordered, and could you please have what you asked for?
Naah, you've just looked at this too literally in the usual gotch manner.
I don't mean solving a problem like THAT, where they perhaps need to give you the steak not the chicken. I mean if you bitch that it is cold, or that it is cooked all wrong, etc. etc. -- when a meal that you ordered is brought, and it is cold, well, it's a lousy restaurant. You don't have to bully the WAITER -- as I noted, you can quietly talk to the MANAGER.
You are very selective, as usual, in trying to read the text.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | December 22, 2006 at 01:17 AM
This just in, from Maczter, who is not content with disrupting meetings and being an apoplectic nuisance, he has to keep IMing me inworld -- then muting me:
"Maczter Oddfellow: that happened several minutes before i noticed that there were still people at the other location, reduced my draw distance so i could log in as my alt testing account at the same time as my main account was still present at the meeting so i could catch back up via the chat history once i had fetched all the people left behind. if i was trying to be a pain. i would not have gone through all that trouble to help make sure people were able to find us. you will remain on my mute list until i receive an apology from you for being so utterly unreasonable."
Answer: go fish.
I do not apologize when I haven't done anything wrong.
Trying to run meetings and herd cats is hard work. It was already underway when this busybody kept intruding.
He then *logs on an extra avatar that overloads the sim* and then reports "Oh, the sim is overloaded so I must be right".
Now that beats all, eh?
It was overloaded for like one second, because people figure just to land on the next sim. We're all standing on 2 sims, and we are already in the process of trying to solve the problem, either stay to be heard, or go to the four corners to risk all the objectionable features of four corners, no hearing for some, sinking, crashing, etc. As the transcript readily records, the problem was already being solved, people were already weighing the options and people were already figuring that because there was one very angry beaver constantly beating on people to move to the 4 corners, they had better go...but the experience was FAR less optimal than if they had remained, the mere 42 of them, *right where they were* unless they suddenly had MORE THAN 8 visitors -- not including Obstructivist's alt.
(Imagine being such a self-righteous obstructivist that you would log on your alt to a sim to prove that you can get a "sim is full" message -- as if the people hadn't already gotten that message to start with on the ORIGINAL sim and for that reason were MOVING.)
What's amazing about this unreasonable asstard is that he assumes that he is the only one helping people. Several other people are already doing the same thing. Already taking dozens of IMs, trying to TP people trying to communicate with the original dozen groups all contacted about the meeting. Hello??? This is hard work. And you can't suffer the distractions of an obstructivist.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | December 22, 2006 at 01:38 AM
Hmmmm....this post kind of reminded me of an earlier post that contained bullying:
Prok: Hey! Why am I banned from crossing your property????
Ban Line Guy: Hmmm, let me see.
Prok: I've never done anything to you, and it's a pain in the ass to have to go around. Don't you know who I am? I'm Prokofy, dammit!
Ban Line Guy: Okay, let me see if...
Prok: Dammit! I told you, I'm Prokofy! I'm famous! Unban me!
Ban Line Guy: Okay, but if you just...
Prok: I'm PROKOFY! That's all you need to know! Unban me!
Ban Line Guy: Well if you'll just...
Prok: I'M NOT IN A STAR TREK GROUP, DAMMIT! I FUCKING HATE KLINGONS!
Ban Line Guy: That's not really what I...
Prok: Ka-Plah you little worm! I'm Prokofy! I'm famous! Fucking unban me now or I'll kick your ass! I'm not in a Star Trek Group.
Ban Line Guy: Okay, but....
Prok: I'm not in a Star Trek Group!
Ban Line Guy: Really, if you'd just take a....
Prok: I'm not in s Star Trek Group!
Ban Line Guy: But I'm not...
Prok: I'm not in a Star Trek Group!
Ban Line Guy: Give me just a....
Prok: I'm not in a Star Trek Group!
Ban Line Guy: This is starting to....
Prok: Oh screw you! You're a fucking moron. I don't have time for this shit. I've got to go write a bunch of articles for the Herald that don't have sources. I'm not in a Star Trek group, dammit! You just unban me or I will beat your ass. Have a nice life! Idiot!
Ban Line Guy: What an asshole.
Okay, it didn't go exactly like that. :)
Posted by: Boss Melnitz | December 22, 2006 at 08:33 AM
Let it remind you all you like, Boss, you've rendered a completely overblown and hysterical version of the transcript that *did* occur, which *is* on the record a few blog entries back.
It's funny how you buy into this totally specious concept of this
ageplay paranoid idiot somehow suffering the excesses of Prokofy Neva's impatient ire, when the real issue is that this hysterical, paranoid nut has banned me from land, even though my land is right next door to him, he's never had a single griefing incident from me even being right next door to him, and he has absolutely no reason to ban me except by hear-say.
What, it's ok for him to be a hysterical asswipe and ban me pre-emptively on hearsay, but I'm supposed to sit quietly and have the entire 4 corner sim area where I'm located become unnavigable? Why? That's not being impatient and angry, that's giving a legitimate pushback to somebody who was FIRST being an impatient and angry asswipe while I was merely minding my own business.
Like so many tuning into this blog, you look at the equal and opposite reaction that I give people, and forget to look at the original push. It's like it is invisible to you.
You're forgetting that *time elapses* in a transcript and that far from being some impatient moron, I waited around for 45 minutes while this guy claimed he was checking on this "group" he claimed I was in.
Furthermore, all I did was fly to *my own property* and he was the asstard standing on the edge of his property looking into mine, menacing me, not visa versa.
I'm not in any Star Trek group. My name was spoofed and put on a griefing object by the griefing W-Hat Safari group, they made this "USS Prokofy Neva" thing.
Can you not see that to go trawling around to websites, making lists of names based on screenshots or chat logs, and putting them into ban lists in SL -- absent no direct experience of the people
For example, the faux long-suffering Somethingawful types always claim they are suffering guilt by association. They would be, if I went to their site and took every single name and put them all into mass ban lists. But why do that? I only take the names of those with whom I have a direct, objective documented experience of them griefing me in myriad ways. I can then take note of their griefing groups as a whole, but to block every single one of them pre-emptively without cause would be hysterical ban-happy bullshit. And that's why I oppose Ban-Link.
W-Hat loves to hide behind guilt by association concepts. In fact, the issue is guilt by *actual documentation of bad deeds.* I think actually some of them are frequently drunk or something and have memory lapses of their actual documented bad griefing deeds and imagine Philip Linden has banned them only from "guilt by association" -- utter bullshit. Every single one of them had rap sheets as long as your arm.
I think you're just mad because I've pointed out your self-interests earlier.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | December 22, 2006 at 09:33 AM
Contrast YOUR tendentious rendering of this transcript, with the actual transcript:
Prokofy Neva: You want to tell me why I am banned from this property when I don't even know you people?
Prokofy Neva: I live next door and have properties all around here and I can't even fly up the river hardly.
Prokofy Neva: what's up?
Relkin Warrigal: because you are a member of a group that is known for going to ageplay sims and giving them unwanted and unauthorized publicity
Prokofy Neva: ?
Prokofy Neva: I do not go to ageplay sims and give them unwanted publicity? what are you talking about?
Prokofy Neva: I have nothing to do with this? and am not in any groups?
Prokofy Neva: I do not like eating red lines in my neighbourhood, I don't care what people do on their properties, i have nothing to do with these themes.
Relkin Warrigal: SEVERAL members of your star trek group have been going around taking pictures of ageplay sims and posted them in a blog claiming that they are "hiding" the sexual side of ageplay behind what ever other themes
Prokofy Neva: Dude
Prokofy Neva: I am not in any Star Trek group?
Prokofy Neva: I have not taken any pictures?
Prokofy Neva: huh?
Relkin Warrigal: YOUR group's name is on the blog
Prokofy Neva: I have nothing to do with Star Trek
Prokofy Neva: I am not in any group related to these things
etc. -- go read the entry "Ban-Happy"
See what I mean? Tendentious and stupid.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | December 22, 2006 at 09:36 AM
Shut the fuck up, you useless piece of shit.
Posted by: Joshua Nightshade | December 22, 2006 at 09:46 AM
Prok...it was a joke. Don't take it all personal. The people who get it will laugh, the people who don't...well, they probably aren't worth listening to anyway.
As for pointing out my own self-interests, I'm sure everything you said about me was true, although I didn't read it. I'm all about doing anything for a laugh...and virtual sex. Love the virtual sex.
You can try to make me hate you, but I still think you're a swell person. And so do most of my alts who rent property from you. :)
Posted by: Boss Melnitz | December 22, 2006 at 11:47 AM
... which is what I mean by handling things with tact.
Yes, you were (originally)banned by mistake. Staying calm and giving the guy a moment to sort it out most likely would have given you the result you wanted. Getting angry AND BERATING HIM IN ALL CAPS, LINE AFTER LINE got you muted.
See how it works?
Posted by: lorelei patel | December 22, 2006 at 11:50 AM
No, I wasn't banned by "mistake," I was banned by a hysterical, ban-happy, paranoid grieftard himself, who has done this to loads of people. This is the sort of thing we need to react swiftly, loudly, and repeatedly to or we will be overrun with Philip Linden's evil ideas of Ban as the new form of social contract.
I don't care if somebody mutes after getting an all caps after they've behaved like a dickwad. People who are BDSM controllers always exhibit this feature. Instead of *actually* saying, "Oh, excuse me, let me see what that's about" or *believing* what their own landlady tells them about a neighbour, they remain injured-but-not-innocent, proud, arrogant, and assholey.
They say "You are in a group," when they have no group they can pull up in GROUPS and prove that you are in a group.
Read the transcript, and see it is the usualy BDSM controlling bullshit. "I'm in charge here, and I'm going to wait and make you squirm." That sort of bullshit has to get the biggest possible whackback now at the early stages or we will be living in a red-line jungle.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | December 22, 2006 at 12:04 PM
Okay...curiosity got the best of me and I went back to read your response to me on the other thread. I don't recall ever selling porn while I was a renter, although I remember creating huge places for friends to come (no pun intended) and "enjoy" each other. Who knows, though...I might have. I do recall selling some pretty ugly furniture. Fortunately my building skills have improved somewhat, and my own SL "masturbatory" phase has pretty much passed. Like most people, I figured out I prefer RL sex, though it has perils of it's own.
I still think you're the greatest, Prok, and I intend to immortalize you further (if that's possible) in several fabulous Haiku.
Posted by: Boss Melnitz | December 22, 2006 at 12:04 PM
Immortalize away, dude. Gosh, you can't remember all those big paintings with the jiggling boobies lol? They were all over. I finally got a few complaints about them from women so I asked, could you put them inside? This was in Aztecha. I didn't mind them, but they were a little...jiggly...to have out in public all the time.
I never noticed that you had any kind of "enjoy each other" place because I tend not to peer into tenants' parlours if they are not over the prim limit. And I don't judge people who want to come online and jerk off with others. I'm glad they found each other. It's not a problem. There's much to offer in terms of being disease-free, for example. Each to his own.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | December 22, 2006 at 12:06 PM
Wow...apparently the multiple personalities are getting confused because I don't ever remember renting from you in Aztecha. The only place I remember renting was on the side of a hill next to a huge river. Pretty sweet place.
But I've never sold boobie pics, to my knowledge. Do you remember if I made any money at it?
Posted by: Boss Melnitz | December 22, 2006 at 12:12 PM
This was a long time ago, you were just a newbie. For sure. Yes you made money. Yes you were on the waterfront. That was the side of the hill on the water.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | December 22, 2006 at 12:19 PM
This Society for Virtual Architecture sounds like an interesting group. Is it all builders or just people who like to enjoy interesting builds? Do they often host events with RL companies or was this a first?
I wish I could know how the actual speech went and what she talked about.
Posted by: Allana Dion | December 22, 2006 at 12:43 PM
The Society is all of the above, both RL and SL companies.
Look it up in SEARCH PLACES and visit. Well, it was her personal preference just to talk about her various first-life and second-life experiences and for that reason, she preferred not to make it a public *transcript* even though the meeting was open to the public. It's to avoid harassment, frankly.
This is the sort of meeting held often and is open to the public.
I put a story up in the Herald about it today.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | December 22, 2006 at 01:35 PM
oh ok, I can understand why she didn't want that published then. Sounds like an interesting group.
Posted by: Allana Dion | December 22, 2006 at 01:37 PM
You're right about that four corners idea. It just doesn't work. The closest I've come to managing a thing like that is using two sims with a stage and rows of seating on one side of the sim line and rows of seating on the other side of the sim line and making sure everyone is seated and not trying to move around. It can get messy.
Posted by: Allana Dion | December 22, 2006 at 01:40 PM
I'm glad that such a frequent antagonist as you has given my obvious observations of reality some credibility then with the stubborn Maczter Oddfellow.
This is the facts: two sims are better than four. You can have people seated and hearing each other and still get 100 that way without the chat disappearing or the floor sinking or the crashing. Give me this set-up any day.
All Maczter wants to do, however, is keep flogging the very literal idea that at four corners, you can physically fit more avatars.
So? Avatar-cramming is not a goal in itself.
Avatars have to be able to sit - yes, they must.
And hear - yes, that's critical.
I'm afraid the IBM stadium will have to have some modification. I can't see how that giant thing with the seating at the edges of all four sim rather than in the middle (like the Pooley build) will ever work. They'll need to throw up a whiteboard or a repeater or a something.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | December 22, 2006 at 02:13 PM
A repeater will pick up the chat and copy it to a group IM right? If we get a feature that limits who can send group IMs, that'll be an ideal solution to hosting "live" meetings where a few people can actually attend and everyone else can listen to the transcript.
The last Town Hall All Hail The Central Town Hall didn't go so well; but generally I like to sit a repeater location chatting with a small group of people about the meeting rather than sitting at foolaggystage watching slides of crashing Lindens and reading loads of spam.
On the other hand, a few people are hosting fairly regular talk shows inworld that I'd love to listen to, or rather read as I putter around The Grid, everyday like a househusband watching morning talk shows on that box in the corner.
I understand that would impose a successful real life model on the virtual world which must be all shiney new and completely different and innovative and compelling in true technawilko fashion. But I'd enjoy it all the same.
Posted by: Khamon | December 23, 2006 at 09:39 AM
A repeater is merely a way of listening to chat on another parcel on your own parcel. It doesn't put it in any group IM -- that's something I think is still done manually. If they have a way of doing that, great! But I've only seen them do it that way manually.
Yes, that would be ideal! I love that concept.
I don't see why this would impose any RL model, because the househusband could only watch the soaps on the TV in the room where he is vacumming, as soon as the goes to scrub the bathtub, unless he has his TV in there, too, he can't keep up with his soaps.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | December 23, 2006 at 12:20 PM
>"generally I like to sit a repeater location chatting with a small group of people about the meeting rather than sitting at foolaggystage watching slides of crashing Lindens and reading loads of spam."
This is also what I prefer. My favorite town halls have been the ones where all we did was sit around the forum club listening to the town hall on the music stream and being able to discuss or comment or mock, without disrupting anything.
Posted by: Allana Dion | December 23, 2006 at 12:29 PM