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04/19/2007

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Solar Legion

for some Coco, it is nothing more than stating the obvious or their opinion.

Unfortunately not everyone understands that ... In fact there are those that mistake such things as a statement of absolute fact.

when it comes to Laws and what people choose to do there is but one Absolute Fact: Humanity will do what it feels like doing - Legal or not.

Laws should be in place for a great many things - at the same time some laws foster the very thing they seek to prevent.

There must be a balance ... at this stage such a balance is not possible.

Khamon

You don't know people that think this way in real life Coco? I do.

They think this way about various rights people do or don't or should or shouldn't possess. They attribute very strict profiles to people based on their citizenship, choice of religion, skin colour, profession, this list is endless.

Where do you live that narrow minded bigots don't? I want to move there.

Cocoanut Koala

Not sure what you're talking about, Khamon. I'm not talking about rights or prejudices.

I'm talking about an all-or-none thinking in terms of solving problems, or declaring some actions unlawful.

coco

Khamon

Oh like people that cheat on their taxes (ignore the law) because the money either 1)belongs to the citizen rather than 0)belongs to the government?

No more like suicide bombers who believe that 1)human life is sacrosanct or 0)it's not?

Wait, like people who steal (ignore the law) because they can and people should be more careful to protect their things.

Loads of people break laws every day because they believe the laws are unjust, silly, or simply don't apply to them. They demonstrate a very binary mindset every time they speed, eat grapes off the grocery counter (people actually do that), break into a house or sell illegal substances.

I do apologize though for expanding your analysis of the technologist mindset to real life situations merely to point out that what you're talking about pervades all of humanity. It likely wouldn't have occured to me if you hadn't explicitly stated your relief that it didn't.

Prokofy Neva

>I wish people like you would get with the times and lose the smug arrogance that comes with thinking you understand what you are talking about.

It's not rocket science. And we can understand it. And you are an asshole. We've established that much!


>Let's review shall we? Take my ISP as an example of the norm: Static IP is an option. A static IP endangers your system.

Maybe, maybe not. I personally would not trust a single thing you say, because your arrogance and literalism blinds you to any field data and truths that may be trying to get through.

>Kindly do not spout off as if you've somehow got all the answers - you do not and clearly you think you do.

Um, I think that's what you're doing? I don't need to pretend I have all the answers because I'm not a tekkie. What I can do, however, is point out that are a fraud. You are some kid or overgrown immature brat who is trying to use a field of knowledge as some kind of insecurity shield. It's pathetic.

>Here's the plain and simple fact for you: corporate types use a Static IP, those who travel often use a Static IP - Joe User does not.

I've had other tekkies tell me that DSL lines have pretty much the same IP. I've witnessed that myself. The issue isn't "travel often" but merely "has a DSL line". But I'm not pretending to be an expert like you are. The main point is, we have tools from the blog owners, we use them, they're imperfect, but people can also stop being dicks and not keep trying to post where they are not wanted :)

>Want an effective ban? Ban an entire Provider

Wow, that really makes sense! I think it would be just the ticket to ban an entire ISP, that will knock of not only thousands of people who haven't griefed, but even my own access to my own comments DER.

Where do they come up with these winners in tekkie school???

Prokofy Neva

. People like to brag about what they know. People who know some technology will post ways around any plan just to show that they know that there are ways around it.

2. People become too steeped in technology, with no reference to much else, little education in anything else, and little interest in much else. They rather quickly become become ensnared and limited by the very 0-1 religion they have come to idolize.

The entire word becomes a 0-1 proposition. If it's not 0, it must be 1! If it can't be completely 1, then you must let it stay at 0. There can never be anything in between, or if there is, it's worthless. Even .75 is worthless.

Very well said, brilliant. I think it's also about power. People who want to show that there's a way around every block or ban want you to know that they are almight tekkies, able to hack around anything, and they are terribly smug about it because they love having power over people! That's it!

And you're absolutely right that it's a hacker mindset that is criminal at root. It's like the Lindens' first suspension of their own laws to give their precious ones a libsl an o ut.

Khamon, you're being deliberately contrarian and obdurate, it seems to me. The examples you're citing aren't analogies or the point at all.

What Cocoanut and I are talking about is this "100 percent or 0 percent" mentality. It can never be 70 percent or good enough; it can only be all or nothing.

This is rigid, totalitarian thinking that runs smack against what is required for technical innovation itself. I marvel at how it is allowed to persist. But as far as I can tell, it's an extremist end of tekkiedom and not in the mainstream.

Solar Legion

Prokofy, you apparently did not understand a word of what was typed out so I'll make this even simpler on you m'kay?

A Static - or single IP address is optional for Joe User. A Corporate type or a travel type tends to use a Static IP to make it easier to access their IP bound information.

The part that you still do not seem to grasp is this: Any change at all to an IP Address results in an IP Ban being ineffective. The only reason a person would have the same IP address for years at a time - aside from the use of a Static IP - is if they have never had a service interruption or have never shut off their router.

It is that simple - as is making an effective and lasting IP Ban.

That's the core of the matter, now kindly stop prattling on .... You've been given the information: Use it.

Oh yes .... hate to break it to you but if someone is determined enough to leave a comment to you, you will eventually have to ban a wide range of IP addresses tied to a single provider. You'll be banning anyone else that may have those addresses assigned to them in the future as well.

On a final note, kindly remember I have not professed to be an expert - this can be seen right here:
"Addendum: I do not have all the answers either - I do however understand how Joe User connects to the Internet."

Solar Legion

Oh and while I'm at it Prokofy I'd like to inform you that nothing I have stated or typed here was done in "arrogance" or to be literal.

If you have the data, please share it: I'm always open for discussions ..... however I lean more to Philosophy and Theology than I do Technical.

Prokofy Neva

What I marvel at is that a jackass like this could keep imagining no one can understand this simple information that is widely known, even to the non-tekkie.

Um, read over what I wrote, jackass, and try to get over yourself. When an IP is dynamic, i.e. moving, changing, having its little numbers become *other* little numbers, the ban based on a precise string of numbers or whatever can't work anymore. Duh! We all understood that like ages ago, and understood it at the top of this thread when you began to swagger around trying to explain the obvious.

The concept that an IP stays static if they never shut off their router is therefore quite relevant, as many people *don't*.

What you're still failing to *grasp* dumbass is HOW THE TOOLS WORK HERE DERRRRR. Inside the blog tools, you can't work the tools such as to define a range of IPs, or to define such a thing as an ISP. It enables you to ban *just that precise IP address that shows up when you click on that person's name, and that's it*. DUH???

You need to learn how blogs work. Why don't you start one, and quit showing off on other people's blogs? What are you, like 12??

You are thoroughly dense and stupid, Solar. It's really a huge obstacle, and a menace to society. Blogs do not enable you to do those things if they are provided by companies, and not customized by your own IT department or run by you yourself. They are limited. And they work *good enough*. Everybody knows they cannot reach a range, because you *cannot set them to a range* DUH.

tempusfugit

You seem to be a terrible person.

Solar Legion

You know, I was attempting to be polite and nice Prokofy, so now I'll just drop all the pretense m'kay?

Drop the fucking attitude - it doesn't help you any whatsoever and only proves that you are incapable of polite conversation.

There are systems in some places which allow you to ban an entire range of IP addresses - or is that something you've never heard of?

Now then, with all of this out of the way, do as you see fit ... How the fuck someone like you who brings such irrelevant things as AGE into this (by the by, I'll give you a hint - I am more than old enough to drink alcohol) and with such an attitude manages to hold a job or for that manner have any friends is beyond me.

In the future: Keep the fucking attitude OUT of your responses ... It's one of the many reasons people dislike you.

Prokofy Neva

Um, you haven't been polite and nice, but have barely concealed your arrogant assholery from the beginning. It always shows, when people get hectory and act like know it alls. But trust me, you were explaining the obvious that we all knew ages ago anyway. It's astounding that ground men would behave this way -- oh, so they must not be grown men.

Could you pull your head out of your fucking ass please? I don't CARE there are "systems" that can do this -- and DUHHHH I just mentioned that there are at people's work, or at their own website they host themselves.

BUT THIS IS A BLOG WITH LIMITED TOOLS DUHHHHH. I mean, this is understood from the get-go. And that's why it's not even interesting to debate it, and you can take it up with Six Apart that makes typepad.com, and not me.

I don't care if people dislike me. It's absolutely immaterial to me. They sure as hell dislike you, however, because you are a roaring asshole, explaining the obvious as if it is the Secret of the Ages, and telling people off with irrelevancies, since you can't control any dynamic range of IP addresses here, as I've explained 3 times now.

Could you go fuck yourself somewhere else please?

Solar Legion

As I have explained three times now Prokofy - and read very carefully now, because this is the important part and can be inferred by even a child - I do not give a fuck what you are able to do on your Blog or not!.

You have a serious attitude Problem Prokofy, I would never wish to teach someone like you anything whatsoever.

I have one final thing to say to you Prokofy, and it's the last you'll see of me ... at the least until you say something that does not show your lack of social grace and apparent need to resort to the sort of thing that only those still in school - or that mentality - do:

Take your "Holier Than Thu"/"I am your better"/"I am all important"/"I can say whatever I want to whoever I want" attitude and shove it up your own fucking ass.

Ace Albion

Solar, the big residential ADSL internet packages in the UK mostly specify a *static* IP address, and a dynamic one either has to be requested specially, or is not offered at all.

Solar Legion

Alrighty Ace - see, now that is something I did not know, being as I'm in the US.

Khamon

Yes I'm being 1)contrarian because I'm not 0)agreeing with Coco that the binary mindset is limited to technologists. But then I'm 1)a techs that imposes myopic, binary conditionals on everything unlike 0)law abiding humans.

You grant yourself the luxury of 1)dismissing my opinion for being contrarian or 0)dismissing my opinion for being technically minded.

Cocoanut Koala

Well, I think that's kind of a stretch Khamon.

Of course there are people who tend to think like that in general. I'm commenting on the specific phenomenon that I have never encountered before except online, and its genesis.

In other words, I'm not talking about people who happen to be very dogmatic in their thinking. I'm talking about the possible occupational hazard of thinking too much in terms of 0's and 1's.

coco

Khamon

I'm gonna learn one day that people who post online are only interested in making their point, not expanding a conversation. At least it's not occuptional hazard as we do have a choice to participate or

Cocoanut Koala

I am busy expanding a conversation, otherwise I wouldn't still be posting.

Moreover, I gave a considerable amount of thought to what you brought up, which took time. I spent time on your thoughts today.

I'm still thinking about them, in fact, as I do various chores, and so far, I think it is not in the realm of what I'm talking about. And if it is, I think it doesn't apply, being far too broad. I think it isn't covered under my thesis.

In other words, I have considered and rejected (and still reject) any stretching of my observation to cover any of the societal examples you cited. We could, however, discuss it further.

Now, that is an awful lot of thinking, and responding, on my part, for you to dismiss with, "I'm gonna learn one day that people who post online are only interested in making their point," wouldn't you say?

I'm simply disagreeing with your point. As you did with mine.

coco

Maklin Deckard

"People become too steeped in technology, with no reference to much else, little education in anything else, and little interest in much else. They rather quickly become become ensnared and limited by the very 0-1 religion they have come to idolize.

The entire word becomes a 0-1 proposition. If it's not 0, it must be 1! If it can't be completely 1, then you must let it stay at 0. There can never be anything in between, or if there is, it's worthless. Even .75 is worthless.

This has got to be the single most idiotic philosophy I have ever run into." - Coco

Amen! I saw this same mindset in engineering classes (Electrical, subspecialized in computer). This kind of binary thinking pervades the computer programming / computer design fields. Other forms of enginering (civil, mechanical, non-digital electrical) seem less prone to the 0-1 mindset.

I had problems with the way my fellow electrical engineers thought in college....the computer science guys even moreso. And now in RL its even more prevalent among semi-traned/self-taught programmers/OSS folks. :(

Its not an on-off, 0-1 world...sometimes, 50% is good enough.

Hell, as far as IP bans go, more and more providers are going to longer and longer DHCP leases on IP's (I can't remember when my cable provider last changed IP's), so just flipping the router on and off won't necessarily evade things. And the techies forget (since they generally only hang with other techies and only respect other techies) the VAST majority of folks don't know what an IP *IS* let alone what DHCP least time means. Right there, Prok's ban would (IMO) have a 50-75% efficiency. Sure the ethically-impared, self-important techno-geeks like this 'maxwell' are going to go around the ban since their ego compels them to and they lack the ethical concepts that tell them that it is wrong, but the vast majority of folks arent going to know how, or care to learn how to evade it. It serves its purpose the vast majority of the time.

Solar Legion

Hate to break it to you Maklin - I live in the same area as Maxwell and guess what?

DSL here has been a pain in the ass. I don't know how many times my own IP address has changed in the last week let alone the last month or year, and that was my entire point in bringing systems operation into this in the first place: sometimes it's really just as simple as having ISP issues which result in a change in the IP address.

Actually, I can remember the DSL going out about five times in a row, changing my IP once each and every time. This will probably stop once the provider is done setting up the optical cable network however.

Solar Legion

Crap, forgot to mention to you Maklin, at least once or twice I've been assigned an IP Address that was banned from various places as far as posting responses or even viewing material goes.

That includes twice for this place, but as you can see, so far Prokofy has not felt the need to ban me just a few others in my service area.

Prokofy Neva

Solar, try to grasp the facts here, and stop being a dick:

1. Many people have IP addresses that do not, repeat DO NOT change. I know. I'm one of them.

2. Those addresses from DSL lines CAN change and sometimes DO when you reset the router but not ALWAYS.

3. Just because your experience is that they are dynamic and change doesn't mean anything. You haven't researched anywhere besides your little pond, you just want to be an ass and lord it over other people. I suspect you're one of those self-trained IRC channel tekkies, and your macho crap is directly related to your lack of either formal training or formal credentials in a RL job.

4. If in fact you do have a degree and a RL job, you're just a terminal dickhead, and you will not get ahead in life even in your chosen field of rampant assholery until you look up above the computer screen.

5. Just because people evade IP bans doesn't mean you don't get some success, using a limited but good-enough tool like this blog's thing.

Maklin Deckard

"Hate to break it to you Maklin - I live in the same area as Maxwell and guess what?" - Solar Legion

Well, you DO have similar posting styles....since you asked me to guess, he's your sock puppet? :)

"That includes twice for this place, but as you can see, so far Prokofy has not felt the need to ban me just a few others in my service area." - Solar Legion

Too damn bad she hasn't. But regardless of what one thinks of Prok, there is a consistent set of rules for posting. Real names or SL full names and no staker-types... I do admire the consistency.

"Actually, I can remember the DSL going out about five times in a row, changing my IP once each and every time. This will probably stop once the provider is done setting up the optical cable network however." - Solar Legion

I am guessing your DSL network has a bunch of paranoid tekies running it, so they have the DSL lease time insanely low / off, so no one can track their Porn/MP3 downloads. :)

I never said ALL ISP's are turning it up, but it is becoming more and more a trend to have longer and longer lease times on IP's. It enables them to better track abuse on their networks, combined with proper logging.

Again, 50-75% success rate blocking is better than not blocking at all and letting the dickheads and anonymous-posting dickheads, rule.

Solar Legion

Macklin, my service provider is setting up an optical cable line to replace the old copper wire system it currently uses.

Each and every time they get a section ready and need to test it, they have shut down that area and a few surrounding sections. Unfortunately, in a small town like this that sort of thing affects a lot of people.

Prokofy, drop the attitude and grasp the facts as they pertain to my posts:

1. I don't give a flying fuck what your ISP does to you.

2. Gee, state the obvious again why don't you?

3. Again, I'm rather aware of how the average user connects to the internet.

4. I'm sorry, what does anything I do in real life have to do with this again? Oh that's right, nothing at all!

5. did I say you don't get some success? Nope. I use IP Bans all the time. The difference between you and me Prokofy? I don't scream and whine when something occurs to give the banned poster access again. I just add the new IP to the list.

I do believe that about covers everything. Should you feel the need to respond to any of the above with your apparently usual attitude in an attempt to 'push back' or some other such nonsense, please feel free to step away from the screen long enough to calm down hmm?

I love giving people second chances to prove that they are capable of reasoned debate or conversation without resorting to baseless insults.

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