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07/18/2007

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Eric Maelstrom

The creator's name is Memoris Jun, not Jan (to benefit those searching inworld.)

Prokofy Neva

Oh, thanks for the correction, will fix!

Erbo Evans

You make a good point about the Communist symbolism; however, Communism is still too near and dear to the hearts of the modern Left to suffer the kind of oppobrium that it really should. So we may have to wait awhile to see the hammer-and-sickle banned the way the swastika is, more's the pity.

Smoke Wijaya

The graves look indeed very nice, though the sites they link to are filled with questionmarks, probably because of japanese characters used....

Anyways, bringing attention to the history and destruction of the Gulag Archipel is something noone will disagree with, I presume, even at the communist party. But equating Communism with Stalinism is something modern communists generally do not agree with...

When you bought your parcel, there was one 512 parcel right in front of you, with indeed some signs of posters and ads. You could have asked the owner to make the back of his signs transparent, but you decided to place a ugly anti-communist sign yourself.
And about that ugly photo-forest-screen. I don't buy it that it is placed because of communist symbolism: 1. it is placed along that whole border of the sim, as well on some other border, but 2. they didn't put up this screen on the border facing the Communist Party HQ's.

Anyways, when you had bought that parcel already, I bought some of the land in Marietta, true, but to call that imperialist I think is a bit strange, when you yourself own many meters to make money...
I bought the land with the idea left progressive groups that don't have the resources can have some land to advertise/showcase their group.
So, the land in Marietta aint a project of the communist party. I am sorry you dont like it, but that is just taste I guess.

>"...no, I must stand and fight."
To be clear, the land is not bought to harass you or build you in.

But, the graves look very nice...

Stephanie Misfit

Thanks for this article Prokofy, I wasn't aware that anything like this existed in Second Life. I lost my little brother tragically about a year ago now, and my parents are still too distraught to consider a final resting place for his ashes, so I personally can see the worth of a service like this in SL.

Prokofy Neva

Smoke Wijaya is the one with the huge ugly communist build up on several sims, btw.

I put up an office on a 512 and was merely minding my own business. I saw all sorts of ugly communist junk over on the next sim, but didn't think to react to it. Next thing I know, it has spread to the sim I'm on (domino theory!), and the asswipe with the lot next to mine has deliberately jacked his earth way up above the normal level where mine and others are AND put up loads of stupid red hammer and sickle signs uglifying and blighting the sim.

I merely put out one sign on that side to retaliate his in-your-face crap, and it wasn't ugly, it was merely a plain "anti-communism" sign, nothing special.

There's no question that this person has done this aggressively because I had an office advertising real estate, and he finds this evil and imperialist -- and possibly he's done it merely because it's me. I have merely a prefab and a small "latest listings" sign on the ground and nothing ugly -- he puts up all that crap as a "message". You don't "negotiate" with asses like that.

Then on the other side, another communist does the same thing -- more signs. She happens to come by and I deploy one more of my signs on that side, hoping she'd get the idea: you do this to me, I do it back. Instead, she merely moved her sign this way and that, trying to beat my sign, and added more.

I tell her that the only reason I put up signs flush along my border is that it was done to me -- and if she wants it down, she has to get rid of hers and get her "comrade" to take his crap up in the air and flush on the border, too. But she merely adds to it.
The first idiot also adds more.

It's because that idiot has added signs all over his property, artificially raised up, that the people with the rentals put up ugly megaprim photorealist forest. I don't even have any signs on their side. I talked to them, and they said they put it up due to the signs, and believed that the *communist* signs were mine. I pointed out they were NOT mine, I was on a small 512, and had no signs on their side, and at any rate had taken MINE down and put up the grave markers. They didn't put a forest facing the headquarters because there are no signs plastered flush along the border, duh. Whatever your "not buying it," that's why they put it up. I spoke to them at length.

If there's one word I always find completely laughably ridiculous, it's the word "progressive".

If the land in Marietta isn't a communist project, then, uh, how come that asswipe put up all these ugly workers' power blah blah hammer and sickle red idiot signs?

As for equating communism with Stalinism, that's a silly dodge and distraction. The roots of Stalinism are in communism, communism itself remains a deadly belief system that only is "benign" in some settings because it isn't in power or is kept marginalized.

"But, the graves look very nice..."

Yes, I'd expect a communist to say this about victims' graves.

Prokofy Neva

Dear Stephanie, I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your little brother. I think it will take your parents surely more than a year to cope with this grief. There is no sense to rush to push the ashes some place.

I don't know if this sort of thing online will catch on. There are online memorial services all over where one can put up notices and poetry and such, but people may prefer online rather than a world, where it doesn't feel right, really.

Burials and memorials are for the earth, where death takes place, and unto which we have to place the remains of our loved ones. In cyberspace, there isn't any death or earth...

Smoke Wijaya

> "Forget about all that fake Japanese stuff that we round-eyes have been making in SL up until now -- the real people are here now and they are making a great deal more interesting stuff than those little tea houses that we've replicated to kingdom come."

That's why I said they look nice, aesthetically. Plus, I think the idea of a memorial place with some "physical" objects like the grave-stones are yet another interesting new way of communicating. Because I think that is the difference with RL cemetary, a shift towards communicating instead of commemorating your loss alone.

I don't think the idea of a grave is nice. And I am very sorry for your loss and the many victims of the Gulag.
Please, do not depict me as someone who agrees and celebrates the Gulag and state-terror. Because I do not and never will.

> "Smoke Wijaya is the one with the huge ugly communist build up on several sims, btw."

Uhmm, ok...several sims, really? Take a better look.
But I guess you refer to the two buildings in Marietta. They are indeed a bit big, I confess, but for a purpose; which is NOT harassing you.
Nor are they necessarily communist builds. At the moment, you wont find any hammer and sickle within them, apart from on some socialist realist painting or poster-art that is/will be shown inside one.
But it is true that my affiliations are with the left of the political spectrum.

> "There's no question that this person has done this aggressively because I had an office advertising real estate, and he finds this evil and imperialist -- and possibly he's done it merely because it's me."

There is no question indeed, because he hasn't done this agressively. He is new and I am sure he has done this out of ignorance.
And again, you could have asked him to apply a totallyclear-texture on the backside.
About that other parcel, next to yours, only some flags at the outside, showing a modified red star, no hammer and sickle. And btw, it is not so strange a communist will cover up an anti-communist sign.
Maybe, you should trust a little less on the truth of your ideas of other people's motives, at least not before checking yourself through conversation.

And I can assure you, this was not done because of you. Just a few persons around there know who you are, I am sorry. So please quit the whining that people were harassing you. I do however understand how you came to the idea evil commies are harassing you: "I saw all sorts of ugly communist junk over on the next sim, but didn't think to react to it."

But, for what it is worth, I understand the criticism against the hammer&sickle. And a symbol *means* what people see in it, so...maybe it needs a change. But then again, why is it that there is not a widespread appeal to forbid the hammer&sickle?

Prokofy Neva

>But then again, why is it that there is not a widespread appeal to forbid the hammer&sickle?

Because the evil-doers are still in power, and there has never been a Nuremberg for Communism -- and there should be.

Rockerduck Bogdanovich

Ok, you dont like communism. Maybe you should know a bit more about how the communists contributed in human history. First of all, the hammer and sycle symbol is still the symbol of the Russian Army, and under that flag 26.000.000 people died fighting against the nazis in WWII, the Russian took the Reichstag in Berlin and, entered in Aushwitz and gave a crucial contribute to defeat Hitler. That would be enough to avoid to make poor comparations between the swastika and the glorious red flag.
Also, having had a communist grandfather that was commander of partisan brigade in italy im twice offended by your barbie comments on true, horrible tragedies that were caused not only by Stalin, but also by estern powers, and first of all the USA ad their allied, not only in 1945 but today, and that still are going on. So, i may agree to ban hammer and sycle signs, if you take away the stars and stripes and the union jack, that are not less covered of blood. But im sure you can't understand a single word of what i say, so please continue whining, at least its advertisement for us. have a great one.

Prokofy Neva

Rockerduck, you're tragically lacking in education and information. There might have been an excuse for this 20 years ago; there surely isn't today.

The old canard about "The Soviets want peace because they lost 20 million in World War II" is a staple of Soviet propaganda, of course, but modern scholarship, the opening of archives, the *reform* of Western communist Parties (apparently *yours* missed this) all has led to an awareness:

o Stalin contributed horribly to his own war losses by cutting off the command of his own Red Army, with the execution of Tukhachevsky and many other commanders

o Many other policies during the war, like shooting deserters or shooting those retreating from the front line, or jailing and working to death even war prisoners returned by the enemy, all contributed horribly to the war dead total

o the country was horribly weakened by the purges of the 20s and 30s also contributing to the weakening of defense.

The number of those deliberately massacred, assassinated, worked to death, mass murdered through vicious campaigns (like stuffing all the Crimean Tatar people, just to pick one of the "punished peoples" false accused of "collaboration with the enemy" into cattle cars and suffocating them or starving them to death on a death march to their exile) -- that's a total that itself is estimated from the beginning of Leninism on through Stalinism and through the whole Soviet period as at least 50 million. In fact, even the war dead total has been revised upwards beyond the 26 million (for years it was 20 million during the period many were propagandized on this score, and there was utter silence about how many of these were lost due to the Soviets' own policies).

If one set of thugs beats another set of thugs, that's no reason to celebrate the thug of the second set of thugs -- whatsoever.

The Stars and Stripes and the Union Jack, whatever the severe critique you'd like to give them, simply aren't as covered anywhere near as deeply as the Red Hammer and Sickle, who beat and scythed their way through millions and millions of people, at home and abroad; in Afghanistan alone, for example, one can count a million killed in the war, with losses of the Soviet army less than 50,000.

No communist party has any advertisement that is attractive today, their numbers have dwindled as the ideology has not only been discredited everywhere, but Moscow gold has ceased to fund the movements and parties elsewhere for the most part.

Rockerduck Bogdanovich

Prokofy, i dont want and dint mean to start any 'number-of-dead' battle with you. Neither im trying to convince you to join the Communist Party. My point is much more simple, and is that Red Flag gained on the field the right to be waved, like it or not. But let me add a couple of side points.
Propaganda is not an exclusive activity of communist countries. For example, just think over the way the Vietnam war has started (President Lyndon Johnson -if i remember well- lied about a never happened attack on American Navy). This lie was followed from an intensive use of chemical weapons from the Good Empire and was paid with the life of thousands of deaths in both sides. And were Hiroshima and Nagasaki something different from an extreme use of propaganda, having the nuclear bombs being used when Japan were trying to surrender from weeks if not months? Wasnt it a message to Stalin, rather? Or more recently, was not the war on Iraq justified by a enormous lie from US administration, do you remember Colin Powell waving some sugar or whatever at UN? But i dont call capitalist crimes all of this, even though capitalist interests are tied into these war crimes much more than the interests of workers were tied in Stalinist crimes. I call criminals and mass murderers by name: Napoleon, Stalin, Mao Tze Tung, Hirohito, up to Kissinger, Sharon, G.W. Bush. As you know well i could call for each color of the political spectrum and find several names to point to. Because these criminals have all one thing in common: a patological need for power no matter the color of the flag they find more useful to wave. This is not particularly communist, nor capitalist, nor catholic, nor islamic. This is the nature of the power. It happened along all history: a story of wars, murderers struggling for power using any ideological curtain they found useful, and people with nothing to gain dying for someone else's interests.
To make it even simpler: i never said that this or that guy is 'bad' or 'violent' just because he/her agree on capitalist values. I can argue these values, but i dont think that agreeing these values makes one good or bad. The same, IMHO, is true for communists, we are not ipso facto bad or good. It doesnt work this way. But im critical on a huge part of the Communist Movement history BECAUSE im a communist, because people like Stalin is a damage for us and our movement. At least in Italy the Communist Party has a deeply democratic history, and contributed to keep social peace after the fall of fascism, and to write the Consitution of Italian Republic, carrying in the women rights just to name a topic. There is nothing in the history of Italian Communist Party i have to apologize about.
Try to apply a critical view to your political side and you will see the same structure in different colors. Im not interested in debating the meaning of words.
a dead is a dead is a dead is a dead.
But sure i lack in education. Thanks for pointing it out, good argument. Still, have a great one.

Prokofy Neva

The Red Flag has gained nothing but infamy, as it has presided over mass murder. It should be retired, as a historical artifact, much like the Confederate flag, illustrative of battles that were for some fought in good faith; which for some respresented real bravery and defense of homeland and values, but which in the end came to signify something larger that was later rejected historically. That's all. Give it a decent burial.

Colin Powell or the war in Iraq are irrelevant to the point that communism is a killer; it's inherently evil, with a corrupt and oppressive ideology built right into it. I don't care what soft brand of this was created in Italy. Doesn't undo the main point, which is that it involves coercion and the big lie and justifies mass murder.

Rockerduck Bogdanovich

Really have a great one:) You can enjoy it and happily sing in the rain. Indeed, if you don't care of, or do consider irrelevant any fact that is in contraddiction with your personal beliefs, you will never be disappointed, and your epistemology will never be falsified. Unfortunately, it will neither be improved but you know, you can't have all.
As i said in a previous comment, I didn't expect an answer and indeed i got not one.
Bye, have fun and enjoy.

plot tracer

Strange. Deja vu. The same old same old. A terrible thing Stalinism/ nazi-ism. Glad they are dead or dying... well, in the case of nazi-ism/fascism... Mussolini said it should more properly be called "corporatism" since it was, under Mussolini, a blending of state and corporate power. As an economic system... one that REQUIRED victims, it was greatly admired by peoplesuch as Churchill and the Bush family. And we move on to the victims of capitalism... every day in Iraq. Every day in Darfur. Every day in Palestine/ Israel. Every day on the streets of New York/ London/ Glasgow/ Rome/ etc etc etc

As for left symbolism... why not call for a ban of all rl symbols in sl? Nike and Nestle and GM are three that stick in my craw.

Prokofy Neva

Nike and Nestle and GM have not massacred people like Nazis or Soviets, Plot Tracer. That you may possibly believe they have is a good advertisement for your vulnerability to stupid communist propaganda.

plot tracer

Oh but the have , you ignorant woman. Perhaps rather than spout your untenable position as the only truth you can do your first proper learning about the system you love. Look up the longest running boycott in the world to start with- and se why millions of people choose not to buy nestle. Perhaps another easy one to look up for you would be coca cola and why people from south america and india urge westerners not to buy the crappiest symbol of western decadence.

Oh, and turning away from something and allowing it to happen is also reprehensible, especially when it is just to hold on to ones own "lot".

Hopefully soon there will be some thing here http://slleftunity.blogspot.com on these lovely brands.

Prokofy

I'm familiar with the Nestle boycott, which is chock full of canards and fake information, which is one of the longest-running propaganda stunts known to mankind. I don't support it. I don't think it accomplishes anything, and I think that when it could be credited with accomplishing something, the campaigners can't take "yes" for an answer, because they really don't care about actually helping babies; what they care about is finding an emotionally wringing symbol like an infant that they can use for a propaganda campaign against Western corporations which they hate for ideological reasons, and not really genuine motivations of humaneness.

It really has been appalling to see this campaign even by the well-intentioned lead to its opposite -- as all extremism does -- absolutely appalling, and I now see your mind is rather tiny, that you could believe this tripe uncritically.

The entire Nestle fandango is one of those crazy stunts deliberately and maliciously started as an extreme left propaganda plan (and one wonders, probably not without some intelligence help from hostile governments) that has actually led to policies causing the deaths of infants, not preventing them.

When you know something about breastfeeding from personal experience, um, perhaps you can speak on this issue.

Infant formula companies wouldnt' exist if the movement to free women from domestic servitude didn't exist. That has to be contemplated.

One of the most insane propagandistic ideas known to mankind is the idea that movements of extreme leftists in the developed world, surely including in fact women who bottle-feed their babies because they go to work and don't wish to breastfeed, can impose breastfeeding as a mandatory solution on women in the third world simply because ostensibly, they don't have clean water or a means to boil it. It's insane, and if any of these women were themselves forced to breastfeed by extremist totalitarians, they'd get over this notion quick.

I've seen the UN adapt some horrific policies in certain country situations that were completely unsupportable because of this hysterical boycott. Imagine, a developed urban setting suddenly under air attack, and you can't permit baby formula to be delivered because of this ideological extremism, although the women there were using formula before the attack, and some of them are killed during the attack or separated from their infants -- and someone has to get those infants fed with formula, and not become ideologically hysterical about breast-feeding due to evil American corporations blah blah blah. My God, the insanity of it.

And even if you can, with some kind of scrupulous independent research, determined that Nestle's advertising and practices did indeed contribute to the death of infants, *do* get a grip. Even the hysterical campaigners claim "15 deaths a year". Now, is that anything approximating the mass murder of the Nazi, Soviet, or Sudanese regimes?! Please, it's an obscenity to compare these things.

There's an awful lot of ignorance and lack of education that the Internet has only help replicate, not remove.

plot tracer

Thanks for the well researched reply. It is quite obvious you have done a lot of research on the topics. In contrast to your well referenced reply, to my shame, I have witten a reply which will be posted on http://slleftunity.blogspot.com in the next few hours (lots of rl agitation and picking on some wee corporations to do... i'm just a big bully, eh?). You are welcome to reply on the blog, but try to hold it together... education can be mind blowing!

Prokofy Neva

No, I don't engage in debates about RL subjects with random anonymous idiots on the Internet, especially when I see they are hysterical extremists. I'm just not required to do that, and I chose not to. You simply will never persuade me with your "education", which consists of a lot of Internet sites all referring to each other in a loop with no outside criticism, and all perpetuating each other.

Dealing with you inworld, I saw what an insane idiot you were over the matter of what was in fact very cheap rent, and the $2 extra you had to pay for group liability about which you were indeed notified.

Since I gather you're in an even more cheap or subsidized rental, I suggest you use all those pennies you saved from not renting with the greedy landlord Prokofy Neva to buy yourself a big glass of chocolate milk -- I'd recommend Nestle's!

Plot Tracer

Right - the article is up. I have quietly corrected Prok's mistakes (15 indeed! not according to the World Health Organisation...)

http://slleftunity.blogspot.com

[15:05] Plot Tracer: hi prokofy. could you explain to me what group liability is?
[15:05] Second Life: User not online - message will be stored and delivered later.
[15:19] Prokofy Neva: If you are just tuning in belatedly on this issue after renting for months, it means you haven't read the group notices, which disappear after 30 days, but are reposted; there should be one in the archives of the group notices still.
[15:19] Prokofy Neva: It is the fee that is your share for the colletive group cost of search ads, which is $2-4 per week billed automatically from the group by LL, and is considered part of your rent
[15:20] Prokofy Neva: if you loathe the idea of being dinged for less than one US penny a month by a fee that somehow you remained unaware about, understood, leave the group, then it won't charge you
[15:20] Prokofy Neva: join the group any time not on Tuesdays, it won't debit you
[15:20] Prokofy Neva: but then don't ask for resident powers to be readded, they are a service that goes with payment of rent and this is payment for group services
[15:21] Plot Tracer: i am not sure i understand it. is it a charge the lindens take from the group?
[15:21] Prokofy Neva: I can't get inventory to pull up now to send you the detailed card about it.
[15:21] Prokofy Neva: It is a function in the group that you can now click off or on to debit for the members of the group that LL itself debits from the Lindens available in your account
[15:21] Prokofy Neva: it does not touch your credit card
[15:21] Prokofy Neva: it can go into the negative, nothing happens
[15:21] Prokofy Neva is typing...
[15:22] Prokofy Neva is typing...
[15:22] Prokofy Neva: Now, can you explain to me: what is it about this that bothers you?
[15:22] Prokofy Neva: Groups have fees; this is the fee; it is explained.
[15:22] Prokofy Neva: In fact, it's even put in all leases now, you just have an old lease from being there for so long
[15:23] Plot Tracer: i was just wondering what it was. i noticed it only from two of my groups - ravenglass and another. i asked the owner of the other one the same question. i havent got a reply yet, but i hope they are not as agressive as you. have i offended you by asking for something to be explained - especially as this is a charge i was not told about up front?
[15:24] Prokofy Neva: The reason I'm aggressive is because I get goddamn sick of being plugged about this
[15:24] Prokofy Neva: when I put out notices over and over again about it
[15:24] Prokofy Neva: read them
[15:24] Prokofy Neva: it is a charge you are informed about
[15:24] Prokofy Neva: if you only notice after months and months, and ignore notices, what can I do?
[15:24] Prokofy Neva: hire a blimp?
[15:24] Plot Tracer: ok - when exactly was the last time i was informed about this?
[15:25] Prokofy Neva: if you hate the idea because you feel as a poor socialist you have been bilked by an evil money-grubbing landlord, put in an application for a refund
[15:25] Plot Tracer: and i have not been with you for months and months.
[15:25] Prokofy Neva: also freeload on Tuesdays
[15:25] Prokofy Neva: that would be my advice
[15:25] Prokofy Neva: do you understand what group notices are?
[15:26] Prokofy Neva: right click on yourself pick groups, then group info, then notices, then archive
[15:26] Prokofy Neva: go to July 10 and read
[15:26] Plot Tracer: yes i do. when was the last one you sent with notification of this? and would it not be a good idea to tell new renters -via rent boxes - about this?
[15:26] Prokofy Neva: it is posted every month
[15:26] Plot Tracer: was out of the country on july 10
[15:26] Prokofy Neva: It's in all new renters' leases? like I just said/ duh
[15:26] Prokofy Neva: well it drops down in the box as a notice that you would have to CLICK THROUGH when logging on
[15:26] Prokofy Neva is typing...
[15:26] Prokofy Neva: you can't bypass it and say oh I wasn't here
[15:26] Prokofy Neva: as it waits for you as you log on
[15:26] Prokofy Neva: as all group notices do
[15:26] Plot Tracer: and not on boxes? it only mentions 300lindens on the boxes.
[15:26] Prokofy Neva: you ignored it, udnerstood
[15:27] Prokofy Neva: because you have an old lease, and leases that are in paid boxes haven't all been updated
[15:27] Prokofy Neva: there are thousands to do; I do them as best as I can
[15:27] Plot Tracer: i had a bunbch of notices after 3 weeks away.
[15:27] Prokofy Neva: ok, so you missed it?
[15:27] Plot Tracer: and you profit well.
[15:27] Prokofy Neva: oh for fuck's sake
[15:27] Prokofy Neva: I don't "profit" from this
[15:27] Plot Tracer: you do it for a hobby. i know.
[15:27] Prokofy Neva: it pays for the cost of search ads which we give to people FoR FREE in this group
[15:27] Prokofy Neva: no, not as a hobby, asshole
[15:27] Prokofy Neva: seriously, go fuck yourself
[15:28] Prokofy Neva: right-click, refund, and fuck yourself
[15:28] Prokofy Neva: you can't accept a common sense explanation
[15:28] Prokofy Neva: and you have to harass and drill me
[15:28] Plot Tracer: you are a nice person. thanks for your help.
[15:28] Prokofy Neva: seriuosly, take it, and shut the fuck up
[15:28] Prokofy Neva: How many months have you rented here?
[15:28] Plot Tracer: i asked a question - you get agressive - thanks - its what i should expect i suppose.
[15:28] Prokofy Neva: no, I answered it
[15:28] Prokofy Neva: and you were beligerent
[15:28] Prokofy Neva: and wouldn't accept it
[15:28] Prokofy Neva: and kept drilling on it and asking for special dispensations
[15:28] Prokofy Neva: and that's truly fucked up
[15:28] Prokofy Neva is typing...
[15:29] Prokofy Neva: it's in the group, it is explained, it is given on CARDS to all new renters
[15:29] Prokofy Neva: it is in all the new leases for months, has been
[15:29] Plot Tracer: i did accept it. read back and stop calling me names and cussing.
[15:29] Prokofy Neva: you happen to have a cheap, subsidzied box that was paid and not covered, that's all
[15:29] Prokofy Neva: Do you realize you live in cheap underpriced land?
[15:29] Prokofy Neva: could you kindly spare $2 for the pot once a week?
[15:29] Prokofy Neva: how many months have youj been there?
[15:29] Prokofy Neva: how many>
[15:30] Plot Tracer: look - ill tell you what - dont do me any favours. give me a refund of my money and take the land back. cheers for your help.
[15:30] Prokofy Neva: 6?
[15:30] Prokofy Neva: here's a refund of the fee
[15:30] Prokofy Neva: don't spend it all in one place now!
[15:30] Plot Tracer: 24?
[15:30] Prokofy Neva: as for refund of the rent, are you aware that I've held your land RENT FREE for fucking DAYS
[15:30] Prokofy Neva: asshole
[15:30] Prokofy Neva: last time I do any favours
[15:30] Plot Tracer: favours?
[15:30] Prokofy Neva: your friends told me days ago "oh, we'll take care of it"
[15:30] Prokofy Neva: your rent goes unpaid
[15:31] Prokofy Neva: I leave it, knowing eventually it will be, you are long term
[15:31] Plot Tracer: you are a foul mouthed agressive woman. grow up.
[15:31] Prokofy Neva: if you are unhappy in my socialist paradise, hon, press refund
[15:31] Prokofy Neva: bye!
[15:32] Plot Tracer: i paid 300 on the 13th of this month and again on the 21st. get your facts right, prokofy.
[15:32] Prokofy Neva: no, I talked to your friends, as your box had expired
[15:32] Prokofy Neva: 13 plus 7 is 20
[15:32] Prokofy Neva: it expired and sat for a day
[15:32] Prokofy Neva: so you were late, and they had asked me to wait; I did
[15:32] Prokofy Neva: if you need a refund, press on the box, and stop harassing me
[15:32] Prokofy Neva: find another person to harass for this kind of low rent
[15:32] Plot Tracer: i rerented on the sunday
[15:33] Prokofy Neva: Boxes don't understand "Sunday" they understand exactly 7 days
[15:33] Prokofy Neva: 24 hours x 7
[15:33] Prokofy Neva: stop being a niggling little nit-picker
[15:33] Plot Tracer: i rerented on the sunday. do u understand that?
[15:33] Prokofy Neva: you had a long free ride, now shove it
[15:33] Plot Tracer: a free ride? how?
[15:33] Prokofy Neva: it doesn't matter if it is Sunday or Monday
[15:33] Prokofy Neva: it goes by the box's hours, not some "day"
[15:33] Prokofy Neva: look in your payment records
[15:33] Prokofy Neva: ask your friends
[15:34] Prokofy Neva: we spoke several times in fact
[15:34] Plot Tracer: i paid u 300 on 21st
[15:34] Prokofy Neva: they said, please don't let anyone take it
[15:34] Prokofy Neva: so I didn't
[15:34] Prokofy Neva: your prims are still on one of them, unpaid'
[15:34] Prokofy Neva: if you paid on the 21st, after paying on the 13th, can youGRASP that is a day late
[15:34] Prokofy Neva: which I routinely ignore
[15:34] Prokofy Neva: now it's CHEAP RENT, barely covering tier -- not even really given the costs
[15:34] Plot Tracer: who begged you?
[15:34] Prokofy Neva: whatever, you don't appreciate it? go away
[15:34] Prokofy Neva: your friends? hello?
[15:34] Prokofy Neva: your neighbours, my other tenants???
[15:34] Plot Tracer: my friends?
[15:35] Prokofy Neva: Peldon
[15:35] Prokofy Neva: and the other one
[15:35] Plot Tracer: higs has not spoken to u in months
[15:35] Prokofy Neva: Peldon said you would be back soon
[15:35] Prokofy Neva: ask Peldon if you have trouble ?
[15:35] Prokofy Neva: seriously, are you usually tghis fucked with people?
[15:35] Plot Tracer: peldon is a neighbour. nothing more. not me. i rerented on sunday.
[15:35] Prokofy Neva: or do you just feel you can b ully and harass someone virtually?
[15:35] Plot Tracer: bully?
[15:36] Prokofy Neva: Yes you are comment-fisking now sweetcakes, stop the crap
[15:36] Prokofy Neva: yuor rent EXPIRED as did his
[15:36] Plot Tracer: how am i bullying you? i asked you a question and you went mad at me.
[15:36] Prokofy Neva: he told me to be sure to save yours
[15:36] Prokofy Neva: no, y9ou can't tak esimple explanations for an answer
[15:36] Prokofy Neva: an dkeeping ddrilling and rilling and second guessing
[15:36] Prokofy Neva: it's truly sick
[15:36] Prokofy Neva: go find someone else to bother, I'm done
[15:36] Plot Tracer: so i paid 300 two days ago. i want a refund. and i want to be free of your group. not for the liabiliy, but because you are an agressive, nasty person.
[15:37] Prokofy Neva: It's not about "two days ago"
[15:37] Prokofy Neva: you just wrote yourself
[15:37] Prokofy Neva: do I need to paste it?
[15:37] Prokofy Neva: you paid it on the one day,k it expired
[15:37] Prokofy Neva: you then paid it late; your friend Peldon can attest to this
[15:37] Prokofy Neva: PRESS ON THE FUCKING BOX AND PICK REFUND IF YOU ARE UNHAPPY WITH YOUR SOCIALIST PARADISE
[15:37] Plot Tracer: peldon is nothing to do with anything.
[15:39] Plot Tracer: stop being mean. thanks for tha advice and thanks for letting me know exactly what you are like as a landllord. i'll be sure to pass this convo around.
[15:39] Prokofy Neva: please do, it's mutual, I'm sure
[15:42] Prokofy Neva: Buy yourself a copy of the Gulag Archipelago.
[15:43] Prokofy Neva: It's not a hobby, it's a profitable small business, and seriously, get stuffed with your drilling and harassment.
[15:43] Prokofy Neva: get a refund, and leave me alone
[15:43] Prokofy Neva: then I'll be able to update the lease for the next socialist! buy-bye

[16:25] Ravenglass Rentals in Zephyr $300: Your remaining balance, minus the refund cost, has been refunded.
[16:25] Ravenglass Rentals in Zephyr $300: Reading Configuration...
[16:25] Ravenglass Rentals in Zephyr $300: Thank you for renting at Ravenglass Rentals in Zephyr.
[16:25] Ravenglass Rentals in Zephyr $300: Configuration loaded!

[16:26] Second Life: You have left the group 'Ravenglass Rentals'.

Prokofy Neva

If you are just tuning in belatedly on this issue after renting for months, it means you haven't read the group notices, which disappear after 30 days, but are reposted; there should be one in the archives of the group notices still.
[15:19] Prokofy Neva: It is the fee that is your share for the colletive group cost of search ads, which is $2-4 per week billed automatically from the group by LL, and is considered part of your rent
[15:20] Prokofy Neva: if you loathe the idea of being dinged for less than one US penny a month by a fee that somehow you remained unaware about, understood, leave the group, then it won't charge you

Prokofy Neva

That's a great chat log, I think it's one of the better ones! Glad it's immortalized!

Prokofy Neva

The figure of "15" is a figure taken from one of the cause websites regarding specifically Nestle's, God knows where they get such figures.

And here's a good example of why trying to argue with sectarian nutters like Plot Tracer is a futile effort, they cannot grasp logic and reason.

Here's what he quotes as his "defense" of the idea that "Western corporations kill babies".

"“The World Health Organisation (WHO) estimates that 1.5 million infants die around the world every year because they are not breastfed. Where water is unsafe a bottle-fed child is up to 25 times more likely to die as a result of diarrhoea than a breastfed child.”"

But...if these children are dying due to lack of breastfeeding, first and foremost, it is a problem caused by their corrupt, abusive, and kleptocratic governments in the developing world. That's often the biggest problem faced by people trying to encourage health care reform, and the wise use of international aid.

The water is often unsafe because people basically shit in their own water supplies, either being unable or unwilling to do otherwise, for all kinds of reasons of poverty, culture, lack of infrastructure.

When the WHO makes a statement like this, it isn't linking this statement to evil corporations or Bush or anything of the sort. It is merely stating what their findings are -- and frankly, one thing I've often found about figures and statistics at the UN is that they are widely misleading, sometimes completely concocted, i.e. they may be figures from one study one year, and they get endlessl replicated, especially by cause groups, and never researched, analyzed, criticized, or updated.

Anyway, Plot can go on fulminating in his conspirators' camp with this, looking for an evil plot everywhere lol!

Plot Tracer

Thanks for the links, Prok! Nice to see you back your facts up with real references. The "cause" website was a real find! And of course! Poor people, by the very definition "poor" will of course like to defecate in their own drinking water! Your figures are the right ones! The ones you have researched from the websites you have ...erm ...quoted (I'm sure you have, somewhere)

Prok for President! (I guess it would be a step up...?)

Another figure - a US Government one. 42 million people living below the poverty line in the US - "it is a problem caused by their corrupt, abusive, and kleptocratic governments in the developing world."?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0908-06.htm

My links are here: http://slleftunity.blogspot.com

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