« Chatlogged | Main | Search and...Destroy? »

08/28/2007

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Troy McLuhan

I wasn't there in person, but did catch the closing "ceremonies" via streaming audio. I was surprised when they said that they'll be organizing the SLCC for the next five years.

One reason for my surprise is that the Second Life Insider podcast recently interviewed Flipper and Jennyfur (in Episode 14), and in that interview they basically said they're tired of organizing the SLCC. It's a lot of work, for no pay, and for a lot of criticism. In the interview, Flipper suggested maybe having something less formal, like "Hey everyone, we'll be meeting in city X at Y hotel on date Z. Feel free to join us."

Maybe some Linden offered them the license to the "Second Life Community Convention" name, and they couldn't refuse. They were probably overtired or over-enthused at the time.

Breaking apart into multiple thematic conventions would make a lot of sense. I'm certain the educators would go for that. In fact, the educators already held an inworld conference on May 25 and it drew over 1000 participants.

If Philip is right, and SL becomes "bigger than the Web", then does it really make sense for us all to get together for an annual "community convention". If someone were to propose a "World Wide Web Community Convention", they'd be laughed out of the house.

Jane2 McMahon

-- "We are reaching the critical mass, and the escape velocity, where what people do with Second Life is more interesting and more compelling to them then that they do it on Second Life."

That's pretty much it in a nutshell...the proliferation of general conventions this season will be more venues for those who attend to socialize or sell, i.e., the convention itself, more than for those who are doing things with the medium and would benefit from events such as you suggest.

Thanks for your reports from SLCC...very insightful.

Prokofy Neva

Troy, it isn't that someone "gave them the license," it's that Jeska Linden and her long-time friends FlipperPAY and Jennyfur just glommed on it, and got their friends at Phreak Radio to organize it. Yes, Flipper and Jennyfur stepped down, but they left it still to their core group of pals at Phreak and SC. And they might lumber on with it, but it's breaking up.

An example is even this photo above, that shows three people who aren't even friends in SL, let alone RL. That is, obviously I know who these people are, and I've been acquainted with them in SL. Adri I know better having sat and talked with her at VW07 and found we shared some viewpoints, but still, it's not like a friend I IM every time she logs on; she's more like a colleague in the joint enterprise of SL writ large. Slim Warrior is someone I never knew until the dust-up over SLCC and the musicians, and then I chatted with her a view times. So our appearing in a buddy photo like this as if we just won the bowling tournament at Fairlanes' in Buffalo, NY sponsored by Wasakowski's Family Restaurant, is all sort of a great illusion. We barely know each other; we don't even have a terrible amount in common within SL; we are just drawn together by that sort of grand shared enterprise called "Second Life".

However, that isn't a glue that would by itself make us convene again in Chicago; it would have to be either a) live music organized well for Slim (and fans of Live Music) b) business seminars with really interesting and compelling speakers for Adri; c) a focus on how inworld business can succeed, too (for me). And all those things are unlikely to come together again, and probably shouldn't.

Richie Waves

Glad you had fun Prokofy :)

Onder Skall

I'm genuinely surprised you went Prok, all things considered.

Economic Mip

Has anyone anywhere commented on the absolutely horrific quality of the educational stream in-world? It was really bad all weekend, and some even transfered to other feeds at the "official listening stations".

Prokofy Neva

I felt once I was unbanned, I had to go and stake my claim. And I succeeded in doing so : )

Erbo Evans

I was in no position to do any traveling this year (due to RL issues), otherwise I might very well have gone...if only because a couple of SL folks I know are in that area, and it would have been good to see them F2F.

Marc Woebegone

Profky

Truly, I love the pic w/you and "God".... so telling and objective.

Marc

Marc  Woebegone

ooops... I meant

Profky

Truly, I love the pic w/you and (your) "God".... so telling and objective.

Marc

Prokofy Neva

I have no idea what a picture of "my God" is. It's not the picture on this blog obviously. Huh?

Adri

Prok, I'm not your god? I'm so upset. :D

Great to see you. Minor correction: while it would be /awfully/ convenient for me if VWFall was in San Antonio, it's actually in San Jose, CA.

See you soon!

Prokofy Neva

Taco Rubio, the Phreak Radio manager who completely alienated the Live Music community and basically all of the SLCC community with this ridiculous waiver to sign away rights -- and bar people from taping even their own sessions, is arguing and arguing with me in email -- he's banned from this blog for doing shit like putting the key word "Ravenglass" in his ad like this to annoy me: "We're not Ravenglass. We're Phreak Radio".

He's taking exception to this comment: "Many prominent musicians didn't finally agree to the draconian contract wishing to take away their own original stuff for perpetuity just to stream it"

He's saying that he's only aware of two who declined in the end: Slim Warrior, musician, and Doubledown Tandino, DJ. But...that's totally missing the point, and being literalist to the point of insanity. I guess they'll do anything to justify themselves.

Kaklick ended up signing the waiver, but only after working with Phreak to change it substantively, and I don't know if that included original tunes, if he had them. So...he didn't sign the draconian contract: correct.

Frogg Marlow and Jaycatt Nino said repeatedly before SLCC and during that they wouldn't play their original songs except to small informal groups, and that their performance was of covers, precisely because of the problematic contract. Taco is insisting he has them on tape playing their original music. I dunno, I just go by what they say, and if he somehow was able to play gotcha and getting them to do something they hadn't intended given the contract, well, he's just more of an asshole than I thought.

Komuso said that he hadn't applied, and wasn't coming, but he'd not sign the contract. The contract didn't help persuade him to come, then.

There may be others; Taco can't get away with claiming that just because in the end, after he changed it, he only had two who opted out after having originally been chosen, that he "hasn't alienated the music community" -- which he has done.

I have no idea why certain other acts weren't even chosen in the first place.

In any event, once again I'm convinced that you cannot deal with the SC regs/Phreak Radio/SLCC management. They are assholes, and they need to get out of the way. I'm not "posting lies" to "be like a tabloid," I'm reporting what I see and hear on blogs and in RL. End of story.

Lordfly Digeridoo

Actually, aside from one guy playing Mozart on the Hilton Piano, I don't remmeber seeing any music whatsoever, and didn't realize it until the train ride home.

At the very least, SLCC is going to have to split off into two types: social and business. Talking business with a company while furries are spanking each other 10 feet away, while comical and in the spirit of SL, is quite difficult to do.

Prokofy Neva

I only got glimpses and snatches of the music, and to be honest, a major reason I came was due to the music, and it seemed to be constantly a question of a) something not working so it didn't go off as scheduled b) being lame and not original and not having a set-up for dancing, and having $7.00 hotel beers and c) not really featured.

I just got some information about the story with Frogg, Jaycatt and Grace.

Frogg & Jaycatt played "Charlie," which you could argue is "original" but it's more of a mashed-up set of covers and a YouTube video. They may have played one another original tune. They were not planning too; I don't know if they fixed the waiver to accommodate those exceptions or what.

Grace also reportedly played one original tune, again, don't know the circumstances of the waiver.

A number jammed in hallways and such who didn't apply, didn't like the waiver, and wouldn't come if there were such a waiver they had to sign.

Live Music was messed up at SLCC, no question about it. Taco is arguing and arguing with me about this and trying to put himself in the right. You can go discuss this with him on SC if you are interested. I'm not. I think the point obtains: they unnecessarily and unreasonably messed up the live musicians at SLCC this year, to the detriment of the entire thing.

John Hurliman

Interesting waiver that had to be signed to talk on a panel eh? Maybe I jabbed too hard with an underhanded comment in the e-mail as I returned the signed form as the open source panel didn't get an audio or video feed at all after we signed an agreement that Ph*** Ra*** would be covering the event exclusively. Not really allowed to talk about it though as the agreement also banned us from "publishing electronic or written media" that talks about the unmentionable company without it meeting their approval.

RoflDux Albanese

We just missed you at SLCC, Prokky! D:

http://poolsclosed.nexisonline.net/news/index.php/2007/08/26/griefers-in-my-slcc/

Also, listening to the DJ raffling off sex products only made ABC's story stronger, imo.

Jorus Xi

"Has anyone anywhere commented on the absolutely horrific quality of the educational stream in-world? It was really bad all weekend, and some even transfered to other feeds at the "official listening stations"."

I can comment on that, we found out late on Day 2 that the Hilton wasn't providing us the bandwidth that they were contractually obligated to do... apparently they did the same thing to the guys at ESPN, capped us both at 1mb and made us share that pipe. This was due to an idiot union network administrator, fortunately they brought in a new guy who was able to unfuck all the mess he made. And it was a complete and utter mess. The streams by day 3 should have been cleaned up considerably.

I'll post more on this in a bit, but my Bioshock download just completed :)

Randy

Prock I'd actually like to pick your brains a bit more. This post you wrote was moderately helpful and I think you are holding back. We are doing it again next year in a similar format but man have we figured out some big lessons the hard way. I'd be willing to talk and share if you are up for it. Critical constructive insights are always welcome - lets get a skype call and chat if you have the time.

moo Money

I was the only SL Insider blogger at SLCC and I couldn't cover it live because I was also on the planning committee for SLCC.

Gigs

Aw Prok, there was a pretty big party of us tekki-wikkis in my room, replete with tequila shots!

If I had known you were looking for such a thing I'd have invited you. I'm glad you came, even though we didn't get to talk really at the convention.

Kaklick Martin

I signed the final one that releases the music under a CC license. It explicitly states that rights to the underlying works remain that of the author. My set was entirely original tunes, 3/5ths of which are SL specific.

I do think you have some points about needing to possibly break up and re-focus parts, though I really liked being around as many different types of SL folk as possible. I like the idea I saw floated elsewhere of using a university as a host. During the right time of year you could even get dorms for people. Would be much better meeting/lecture/net facilities.

Maybe you could volunteer, and help actually steer this thing in a useful direction.

Prokofy Neva

Kaklick, you prove my point: people did not sign the waiver as it was. They lobbied to change it. When the terms were such that they could live with, then they signed it.

Meanwhile, a lot of people were alienated along the way -- needlessly.

I think a summer workshop of SL at a university campus would be wonderful, it wouldn't have to be strictly educational, it could also feature non-profits and businesses and live music, but the setting might be a little more serious.

Khamon

SLCC is a party, always has been, always will be. It's been cute to have panels and formal presentations; but one could hardly ever have called it a real life business seminar. It's not rocket science for Heaven's sake; it's not even reportable really; it's a freaking party hosted by club kids.

Rather than slam the hell out of it, why not just report it for what it is?

Tenshi Vielle

Well, in the end I didn't make it to the SLCC because my little rugrat got the flu - and then saw fit to pass it on to me and the rest of the household!

Next year maybe.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name and email address are required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Blog powered by Typepad

Advertisements

Ads.text

  • Ads Text
    google.com, pub-2776838938932602, DIRECT, f08c47fec0942fa0