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12/10/2007

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Crissa

I pay $200/mo so people can come play in my virtual yard.

If only I knew how to make it more real for them...

...But I really don't mind people using it when I'm not there, or even when I am; that's the whole point of having a virtual world, that people can use it.

The how is entirely up to me.

But my payment to SL would barely cover a guild raid on Warcraft.

Prokofy Neva

BTW, it's interesting how this Resident Answers debate continues with the newb guy coming back and saying that he finds Unreal Tournament servers where he says he can invite his friends to review his art work and "study and play" to be far more cheap and fulfilling. Then, I guess he values it more.

But others would find that UT3 is merely some kind of MMORPG war game and find it totally lacking in any attraction if they aren't 3-D geeky artists.

So basically, his beef with SL is that it isn't a 3-D artists' world *for him* where he gets to play for nothing, or for cheap. Well, SL had that phase, but it's over now. If you weren't a beta tester or charter member or early FIC who got all these things for free or cheap or subsidies or incentives, you're SOL now. You now have to cross the barrier of competing with all those who got here first, and the cost may not be something you will spend because you don't *value* it.

Again, you value movies, cars, i-phones, vacations to Jamaica. You don't value tier in a streaming world. Of course, many of us do, because we aren't geeky 3-D artists, and having this stuff all put out here for us to still have the creative thrill of consuming and rearranging in a kind of secondary creative concentric circle is still thrilling. But it isn't for the newb geek.

Those who skip over this geeky entitlement and whining phase and imply put in their own investment and put their shoulder to the wheel often do get something out of it -- but not always, Look at Iron Perth, selling off his business and his sim (or perhaps, merely trying learn its true valuation in this volatile market).

Look at Pontiac, leaving SL. Yes, imagine! The poster child for incentivizing creative users in that 10 percent, and marketing their own brand -- leaving! Even with SL serving as a mere rounding error in their advertising budget, *they don't sufficiently value it*.

Topher Zwiers (SL)

"...and most of the educational stuff seems to be about digital arts themselves, not about anything else."

Not quite accurate. Take a look when you have the opportunity.
http://tinyurl.com/33mot4
http://tinyurl.com/35ewov

Enjoyed the post.
-Chris
SL: Topher Zwiers
http://www.muveforward.com

Prokofy Neva

I read about the medical simulation, but you know, while that's cool and I'm sure you get value out of it, my statement stands: most of what passes for education in Second Life is in fact people pumping up virtual world use itself, and the correlary, pumping up the neo-field of "digital arts" and making them into "a science". Sure, you can make it into a science. But...it has the feel of something rather precious and forced. It's like all the Derida Marxist lit crit stuff -- it's purpose mainly seems to train you to get a job...teaching it...to others who will then get a job...teaching it.

I find it all terribly self-referential.

I also wonder if you had to sensibly chose between SL as a medical simulator, and the closed customized systems like Forterra, if you wouldn't chose the latter.

Aldo Stern

Interesting discussion Prok. I think your reflections upon the limits and nature of the educational potential of SL sort of dovetails with some thinking I have been doing about a few of educational experiments I've witnessed during the course of the last year or so.

Generally speaking, in watching these experiments play out, we seem to see that what most of us have created so far as "educational" sims don't work terribly well as virtual classrooms or demonstration spaces.

It may simply be that so far, we have yet to hit upon the most effective ways to make spaces and builds in-world function as virtual classrooms, because we are still working from real world perspectives that constrict how we visualize using the tools of SL.

I suspect that it is proving to be true that if we are to understand the real potential of the grid for didactic communication, we need to look at it in ways that are completely new--and we're just not there yet.

I will say however, that we have learned some really interesting things about what does or does not transfer well into SL from the real world in terms of goals and practices associated with museum exhibits and immsersion environments. And most importantly, we have seen some truly intriguing informal educational processes going on. The real exciting stuff hasn't been coming out of classes and presentations given in the many virtual (yet still largely conventional) classrooms and exhibitry that many educatiors were hoping to see. The most successful learning experiments I have witnessed involved the loosely organized groups of self-directed adult learners, who are continually shifting and and re-aligning themselves in informal work and study groups that seek to provide the content for the experimental classrooms and virtual exhibits and immersion environments.

I have been fascinated by the way that these people from a wide variety of rl backgrounds and locations have been coming together in diverse places such as Renaissance Island and Deadwood/1876 to share ideas and information, divide up and take on research and "lab" tasks, and have come away with expanded perspectives and knowledge of topics they knew little or nothing about before.

It has reminded me--and again, I unfortunately have to draw upon rl models for a descriptive analogy, which just shows how stuck in the context of the flesh I am--of the learning that I saw taking place in the living history/reenacting movement of the 1980s-1990s. What I saw then was that "reenactments" and living history events themsleves had very distinct limits as a means of educating the public or tradtional student groups. However, the movement was built upon a cheerful riot of self-directed, informal learning activities carried out by loose associations of mixed professional and non-professional historians. Those people used their "hobby" as an opportunity for sharing wonderful experiences in experimental archaelolgy and carrying out research that often put to shame what many academic and museological institutions ever produced on similar subjects.

Ultimately, it may come down to the fact that the most useful experiments are not necesarily the ones in which you achieve the expected results.

Prokofy Neva

http://www.typepad.com/t/trackback/5074/23941336

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