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Congrats Prok, this pretty much gives you free reign to create as many trolling issues as you want that are uncloseable unless someone bothers Rob or one of the other Lindens to close them. The upside to this is hopefully the Lindens will get tired of having to deal with all your trolling rather than their current load of just some of it and ban you from the JIRA like they should have done a long time ago.

Prokofy Neva

The struggle for WEB-382, the struggle for the soul of the JIRA and indeed Second Life, is a perfect exegesis of why what I do, in persisting with dissent, is not about "trolling" but about fighting for the rule of law.

Cocoanut Koala

Way to go, Prok!

I can't tell you how much this cheers me.

Maybe more people will feel like it makes any sense to post something on JIRA now, without getting steamrolled by residents who think they own it.


Cocoanut Koala

P.S. Kudos, thanks, and congrats to the Lindens, too!

Melissa Yeuxdoux

"The soul of the JIRA"?!

It hasn't been that long since the JIRA was an evil tekkie wikinista [sic, in 2880-point blinking day-glo orange Cooper Black] plot.

Time to propose a killfile mechanism for the JIRA.

Maggie Darwin

Before you get excited that this is being implemented, wait to find out what new set of issue statuses are implemented along with it.

I've worked with software issue tracking systems every working day for the last three decades...this cat has multiple skinning methodologies.

Ciaran Laval

Please Alexa do this more often, the results are spectacular!!!!

In all seriousness it's a proposal I largely agree with. However Maggie's words of warning are noted and I'll await to see the outcome.

Prokofy Neva

Oh, Maggie is just talking double-speak and showing sour grapes.

It's a simple proposition with a simple solution and I think once the Lindens concede it, I don't see how they could undo it in complexification.

Margaret Leber

Very simple, Prok. I'll break it down for you, since my little joke about "many ways to skin a cat" seems to have evaded you.

No "double-speak" is required; that can be reserved for such a multicameral mind that can endorse Obama one day and rail at the commies the next.

They will create at least one dead-end, ignorable status that is not actually *called* "resolved", but is effectively treated as such in their management reporting, which is what really drives such a system. Nobody will ever "close" your log-rolling political petition pjiras again. But the ones LL does not like will find their way to the memory hole without ever actually "closing".

The standard joke in software product support circles is a helpline drone who answers the phone: "24/7 Support Line! 'We never close!'".

So when you see the new pjira implementation, just remember who told you how it was going to happen and how you blew her off.

Ciaran Laval

Maggie that already happens. The top voted unresolved bug has been open since August 2007, the top voted feature request has been open since May 2007.

Prokofy Neva

Everyone -- including me -- thought this new category Alexa mooted called "Under Advisement" meant "closed". Strife even heckled me with it on another JIRA proposal.

Then suddenly Alexa said it would be *implemented*, Workingonit Linden appeared, and it was even *scheduled* for November 14. Go know.

Margaret Leber


Yes, but today there's no distinction between the double-secret WONTFIX of "OPEN -- but being ignored because we think it's stupid" and tacit OPEN of "OPEN -- Jesus, this needs to be fixed but the work involved is too scary to contemplate given our workload right now".

Anyway, the devil is in the details of the new list of statuses; *that* is the "soul" of any issue tracker. *Something* will be implemented 11/14...it will be interesting to find out what. I don't think the names and semantics of the new statuses have been published?

As far as I can tell, being assigned to workingOnItLinden is a hack that marks that an issue has been imported to the real Jira and has a DEV number.

Ever play Nomic?


I admit I have never actually *played* it myself, but it sounds like it would be right up your alley, except for the fact that it's only a game...erm...wait a minute...

Prokofy Neva

Um, Margaret, you're just being obnoxious -- and a tool. I won't be clicking.

You are confusing the problem of vague statuses with this actual decision to *do* a proposal, and put a date on it even, and mark it was "Workingonit". That may slip, but that's not a vague status. And when implemented, it's about protecting proposals from premature or prejudiced closure.

I don't expect you to be intelligent enough to understand the value of this proposal.

Darien Caldwell

I have heard there is going to be a new "Nice to Have" resolution in the JIRA. Will be interesting to see how it's used.

Maggie Darwin

Poo... I've been accidently posting under my real name. No harm done, evidently.

Prok, while you're off in ad hominem land insulting my intelligence, you're glossing over that this wonderful thing that has been promised to you as an implementation is exactly that "list of vague statuses" you're dismissing as unimportant. What rules the allowed transitions for an incident in JIRA is what state it is in and who wants to do the state change.

Make up your mind, is it jaw-droppingly wonderful, or is it unimportant?

I really did think you'd find Nomic interesting, especially you being such a political creature and all. Too bad, your loss.

Prokofy Neva

Maggie, you're very dense. I was hoping I wouldn't have to explain it all. It doesn't matter if the Lindens cook up stuff like "nice to have" and "under advisement" -- in fact they already DID cook them up and I already have another JIRA that has already been called "nice to have". That's not the point. They can do it. But the proposal will stand. No one can close it with a closure/resolution/whatever -- even one of those vague statuses *without the owner's consent*. So it will stand and has a chance to collect votes. Perhaps the Lindens will reserve to themselves one override, like "nice to have" or "won't do," but that's just their "resolution" -- it doesn't *close* it, and votes keep gathering. It will enable civic, rhetorical victories even if nothing else; that counts in this authoritarian world. But these concepts are above your intelligence level.

Maggie Darwin

You're saying nobody will be able to change the status at all but the reporter?

I doubt that very much.

I say you will find there will be a set of statuses your JIRA can be set without your consent that are "closed" in all but name.

Maggie Darwin

And if what you want is a "civic, rhetorical victory", you might as well just post it here. Because here you can engange in endless trollful ad hominem and nobody will care.

"You're too stupid to understand me" makes a wonderful rhetorical victory.

Prokofy Neva

Yes, Maggie, that is the case: the proposal was accepted as such, that no one can change the status if the author refuses. There is a window when someone can change it and if the author doesn't respond, it will close, but if the author rejects that it will stay open.

It doesn't matter if there is some sort of "nice to have" or "under advisement" change of status the Lindens cook up as long as the proposal stays open, not closed, and as long as it can keep collecting votes.

If they implement this in some tricky way where "resolved" is something they can add, that doesn't "close" but still stops votes, well, they will not have acted in good faith.

You are too dense to get what this is for, the reason for it, or how it will have a beneficial impact, because you are just the usual controlling, nasty, weenie little tekkie lol. That's clear.

And even if the Lindens water this down with fake concepts like "under advisement" (which they actually said about this one, then turned around and reopened it and announced it would be implemented by a certain date!!!), that's ok, civic, rhetorical victories are good in promoting the rule of law. It has to be done incrementally in an authoritarian setting like this.

It's not my victor, but a victory for the rule of law and democracy. This is how it has to be fought, evidently, given the attitudes of people like you who accept no restraints on the technical class.

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