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10/18/2008

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Melissa Yeuxdoux

Ironically, the Obamessiah's campaign treasurer has tax liens--just like Joe the Plumber.

Also, Ohio law does not require a plumber's license to do what JtP does.

Joe the Plumber is now suffering the consequences of daring to question the Dear Leader, as the Democrats and their subsidiary, the MSM, try to smear and discredit him any way they can.

ichabod Antfarm

"the Democrats and their subsidiary, the MSM"

Stick a fork in it because that old canard is well and truly done.

Everything you believe about Joe and Obama and taxation and free markets, etc might be entirely correct but, please, characterizing the so-called mainstream media as a subsidiary of the Democratic Party is as loony as leftist claims that 9/11 was an inside job. Is News Corp. (for example) not mainstream?

Connie Sec

Again Prok, you wheel out the old left/right ideologue thing which is as old as you are. And all this concentration on "Joe the plumber" of course distracts you from the underlying systemic failures that have brought the Financial system to it's knees. All rather typical of the political discourse that seems to be the way elections are run these days..a political shell game of focusing the public's attention upon the mundane while shielding them from the real problem. And i include both parties in this.
The world has moved on from the old class warfare cum ideological divide that you constantly see as the cause of anything that ails you.
The reality IS that the fin failure has led to nationalization of many institutions, something you and your fellow ideologues would decry in days gone past. Yet the very people that trumpet a hands off approach now see it as essential to the continuation of our system. Do you not see the inherent hypocrisy in that?
The U.S. is basically bankrupt, you have been living on credit for far too long, and the chickens are coming home to roost. The essential fact is that you are now, to use a metaphor, using another credit card to pay off an old credit card debt. I of course include my country in that analysis too.

Prokofy Neva

Er, I wouldn't have to "wheel out" the "old left/right ideologue thing" as old as I am if it weren't for the hard left continually wheeling out an old left ideology thing triple my age, namely Marxism : )

The systematic failures that brought the financial system to its knees aren't a reason for instituting socialism, and the socialist-type solutions will of course ultimately be more destructive.

You could blame the Internet, the rapidity of electronic communications that have so affected how money is moved and globalization as much as you could blame "capitalism" and its "evils".

The story of the corrupt trader at the Societe Generale in France really makes this point vivid -- it would not have been possible in a world with more human checks and balances on real ledgers.

The real problem is and remains the problem of communism v. capitalism, and socialism, the milder form of communism, which is never content except when undermining commerce. These problems remain very real, as we see from the huge amount of static from Joe's simple and direct statement about the immorality of redistribution of wealth. It is made no less immoral for being a kind of malign and artificial simulation of Christianity.

The "old class warfare" is anything but old. We see willingly and maliciously the left in America is willing to play the war game. Their vicious cultural hatred of the mainstream, let alone anything even slightly to the right of them, i.e. liberal, is appalling.

I don't know enough about financial systems to be "an ideologue" about them. These failures seem to be about lack of governance and regulation in a transparent and democratic society more than they are about "socialist solutions" which, as noted, are sure to fail.

Who says capitalism must not be regulated by the rule of law, or that corporations must not have social responsibility? This is the framework of modern capitalism where it works best, and the lack of law and responsibilty are more at the back of the stock exchange collapse and sub-prime mortgage mess than the "idea of capitalism".

I'm glad you feel such malicious glee about telling other people that their chickens have come home to roost. I hope that keeps you warm at night -- but then, what keeps you warm at night *really* is Russian gas and oil, upon which you are wholly dependent. Your real problem lies eastward, and not across the ocean.

Connie Sec

I need to apologize if my post perhaps gave the indication that I feel "glee" at any of this. If anything, the situation in the Economic system at the moment makes me feel cold at night..and the situation in my field of environmental science and our systemic (lack of) response to the root cause of both global problems makes me fear for the future of our children and grandchildren. Unfortunately, in both cases, ideology and self interest will always prevail.
I await your your usual uninformed one eyed put down, as to the writers motivations, with baited breath..Not.

Prokofy Neva

I don't believe in "root causes". "Root causes" of things like "terrorism" or "global warming" are always things like "capitalism" lol. It's utterly fake, this "root causes" bullshit.

conniesec

Again..there u go..assuming people are attacking "Capitalism", when the word isn't even mentioned. You are so blinkered in your idealogy that you can't see outside the box you have built for yourself. If you weren't so pathetic I'd laugh. Stick to translating Ikea manuals.

Prokofy Neva

Um, I don't translate Ikea manuals, although that sounds like a worthy job and *needed job* and you sound like an asshole with a class and culture bias that finds something wrong with people buying Ikea -- or buying Ikea with proper instructions in their manuals.

You're in the box, and continue to laugh in the box like the knee-jerk jack-in-the-box you are.

rebecca proudhon

This kind of disgusting many-headed Hydra, mob mentality, is nothing new of course, but not until Obamunism, are we reminded that hiding behind the scenes the same One World Socialism/Communism is in fact not only still alive, but had gone back to the drawing board and have been busy learning and developing new PR propagation methods, extrapolating on "Without firing a Shot" ideology and the twisted "community organizers," tactics of Alinsky's, "Rules for Radicals," taking "The End justifies the Means" to new levels of lying and manipulation of the masses.

As an experiement I set up to see how long it would take to get banned from SL Universe politics forum. Although I lurk a little over there and has signed up a year ago had only posted a few times. I had lurked in the threads a few minutes to discover that ALL the SL Universe regulars with maybe 3 exceptions were entirely Obamaized.

So in the spirit of my own satire I started posting threads there, about the various issues the Mass Media is doing nothing about. It took about 3 weeks before I was banned for trolling and disruption.

The many headed Hydra, joined at the hip, has absolutley NO objectivity or ability to see when one person is ganged up on by 40. I see it as 40 trolls They see it as one troll---as though SL Universe as a site is automatically a Obama blog.

Do we even notice that the William Ayers hand drawn logo for Weather Underground was redoctored into the Obama Logo?

Pretty slick.

While the older liberals like Hillary (who I was previoulsy supporting) and Bill who as students were once enamored by Alinksy, had learned through trial by fire the meaning of being a "Moderate," they watched a rigged and crooked primary process roll over them like tons of Acorns falling from a big Oak tree of the new ultra left by proxy, kool-aid, internet young.

Obama voted "Pie" "94 times"---the new code for FU, to any kind of sane dialogue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZOxqVl5oP4

The computer addicted, new age commie welfare state is at our door.

rebecca proudhon

This is the "Joe the Plumber" video I think shows it best, because it shows Obama's remarks the day the controversy begins:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSHqxosjyLY&feature=related

conniesec

Love conspiracy theories..don't you?

rebecca proudhon

to connie sec...

Oh you hint what I said is conspiracy theory, but forgot to say "rascist."

Erbo Evans

All right, Prokofy, I pose a question to you:

Knowing what you know about Obama's stance as a Communist/Socialist, and what you know about the lengths to which he and his thugs are willing to go in order to silence his critics (which scares the living crap out of me, incidentally), do you still support him as President of the United States? And, if so, why?

As for myself, I will NEVER vote for Obama to hold ANY office of profit or trust under the United States government or any lesser government. It is my considered belief that the man is not fit to be elected DOG-CATCHER, let alone President of the United States.

And I know liberals will scream "RAAAAAACIST!!!11!1!!one!!" at me for that statement. Let them; I know it's not true. I would love to see a black President...just not THIS black President.

Prokofy Neva

Yes, I do continue to support Obama, because we have to chose among only two candidates, and all the reasons I discussed already still hold for the negative:

o McCain is too old, and his VP choice is not a viable leader
o The Republican Party is associated with gross and heinous violation of the rule of law, in permitting torture of foreigners and the launching of unjust war in Iraq, and the entire Party must be removed from the White House to begin to clean this up
o The U.S. must begin to cooperate more with other countries and with international institutions.

Obama's socialist ideals, which I flagged long before Joe the Plumber came along, as did many before me, remain troubling. But here's the thing about such socialism: it is very hard to put into practice in a country full of Joe the Plumbers. Plans to "spread the wealth around" could not happen without Congress, and there, you will find few actual socialists who would actually implement this.

And there is the other factor of "betrayal" and constant compromising that we have seen with Obama -- and to the good -- on Durban and reparations, on the telecoms, for example. Obama's thuggish backers will be furious with him -- more furious than anybody.

Yes, indeed, I'm very troubled by the implications of these thugs for free speech. The lengths to which they have gone to discredit the other candidates, and to harry and harass poor Joe, have only served to discredit them. And that's just it -- they discredit themselves in the act of doing this, and they will really appear isolated when Obama comes to power -- and leaves them behind.

Far from being able to ride to power on his coat-tails and implement these extremist ideas, they will see what is actually involved in *governing* and having to *serve* in office. Unlike Lawrence Lessig or Dave Winer or scores of other extremists around Obama, Obama has actually served in office. While in office, he might spout some of these ideas, but he could not implement any of the extreme variants of them.

I frankly don't see the race of Obama as the big deal that it has been made, especially on the left, especially as a tool to beat anyone to the right of them. He does not represent the old black caucus in the way Rev. Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson does -- which is why they haven't been seen around him, or have even broken with him. The chief identifying traits of Obama are "liberal" and "lawyer" and not "black", although of course he *is* black and this will be played out as relevant.

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