SL Legend Simone Locked Out of Legend City Online

Like a lot of SL merchants and landlords shocked by Linden Lab's openspaces price hike and PR fumble into having to abandon their sims, and watching the effect on the world, I began to cast a wandering eye on to those other "open sim" projects out there that were reverse-engineered clones of SL, some of which had already gotten a reputation for being Not Ready for Prime Time because of their technocommunism and hatred of commerce and intellectual property, and some of which just seemed to be steeped in drama and filling up with the pyramid-schemers, ageplayers, and gamblers who were flushed out of SL when Linden Lab began to apply the normal real-life rule of law to the virtual world.

So I looked around and I was told of Legend City Online. Reading up on it, it seemed so much more put together than these crappy tekkie sandboxes. It seemed that more mature women in business in SL were running it more expertly than the snivelling and snarky opensource geek males were running the other worlds. The prominent clothing designer Simone Stern talked it up on her friendship card list, and told me to check it out and sent a link. I couldn't get logged on it was so overcrowded - Simone told me that due to her advertising, and the word-of-mouth of other SL merchants who arrived as pioneers like Asri Falcone, LilyBeth Firth of Textures 'R Us, and others, the world burgeoned, and it's manager, Lala Xevious, sold something like 5,000 simulators in a matter of weeks.

Finally, a few weeks after finally getting a better computer, I got logged and was impressed with what I saw. None of this awful opensourced frustration like Adam's world. Clear signage, help for newbies, a very nicely laid-out store with outfits and gadgets easily obtained -- and Simone's signature logo, with some nice free and attractive newbie outfits. Instead of struggling to make a home-made sack for myself in non-working tools as in the other scrubby worlds, I had a nice jeans, shirt and jacket to instantly put on, with skin and hair. A sign told me a "government" was coming soon in a "town  hall' and the TOS contained nice, simple, no-nonsense non-politically-correct restrictions against something the majority of the public wishes to in fact restrict, which is simulated child pornography, and something which the majority of the public wishes to promote: namely copyright protection, respect for IP, and a ban on copybot type of activity (which OpenSim, OpenLife etc actually encourage).

Still, reading a bit of drama on the forums about someone having their build wiped and hearing that snotty tone of the overzealous pioneer and their sychophants so horribly familiar to me from Second Life, despite the nice aspects of this world, I paused. I decided to let it "age". Meanwhile, Simone kept telling me to get on over on to the ground floor of this wonderful place -- enthusiastically, she filled the world with free content, and cheap $50 content, taking on two sims and a welcome area store. The arrangement was like a lot of enthusiastic pioneer arrangements on the open frontier -- a virtual handshake. I listened to this -- and a little warning bell went off in the back of my mind, but I pushed it away. In exchange for Simone giving her Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval to this scrappy new world -- which was hugely important to convince people like me to go there -- and in exchange for providing free newbie entrance content and deeply discounted wares inworld, Simone was supposed to get the free use of two sims. Given how much lower the cost of these sims are (it's not $2000/$295, but $100 down and $100 a month for a full-prim sim), it seemed eminently reasonable. Simone was willing to give -- but not take on a recurring expense on top of her existing obligations in SL.

Being busy with Christmas and my  new SL projects, I didn't get back to LCO, and never seemed to read much about it. I stalled on buying land simply because my $89 experiment at OpenLife had been pretty crappy and I didn't renew that.

Yesterday, Simone IM'd me grimly and told me she was locked completely out of the LCO grid, that her content and sims were seized, and she couldn't even get inworld to delete her content. She was ending her cooperation with the project for a simple reason: the owner, LaLa Xevious, had reneged on the deal and banned her.

When she was flush with 5,000 sims, LaLa been generous about the $100 giveaway. But as it began to ebb, as she decided to rotate more content in the newbie area to attract more merchants, she decided to start charging Simone tier. Meanwhile, she was happy to keep using the Simone trademark sign and newbie content in her welcome area for free, helping to sell her world, although she began to move in some others, to get them involved.

Simone refused to pay the tier, believing that not to be the deal that was supposed to happen with so much free labour and free content of this hard-working seamstress -- and LaLa, in typical diva fashion, shut her out.

And there you have it, virtual world fanz, a danger even far worse than content copying: content lock-outs.

It had never occurred to me to think about how this stuff works -- all the way down. Simone explained to me that Lindens have the power to reach into and take and copy your content because they are the god-mode server owners. I guess I sort of realized it, but I never thought of the consequences. We more or less trust the Lindens, if we give them something, not to have them pass unpermmed copies of the items to their alts to sell.

Er...don't we?

Wellll, I do, I guess because on the one hand, the Lindens probably take a rather patronizing attitude to our content, and don't really need bunches of copies of dresses. On the other hand...are five fingers. And an...eye.

However in one of these scrappy reverse-engineered worlds (and it apparently has a lot of new original code built on top of it, because they started their own currency system and such), what's to keep the server owners from simply taking over your content if you have a spat with them?

Simone is locked out, but that content is still copyable and sellable in world. Where is that currency in her account going...now? I'm not sure their currency system is working yet, but they seem to be bragging about it everywhere. It doesn't quite cash out on an automatic LindEx sort of thing...although something apparently is being worked out on PayPal.

Sooooooo what's going to happen to Simone's store? Her dresses filling up that store? Her money?

Sigh. If the Lindens had decided to sabotage these micro-competitors of theirs, they couldn't have done a better job than residents themselves.

Aside from this drama -- which isn't trivial! -- I was hoping there might be something still "to write home about". But, the world was rough sledding. I kept getting logged out, crashing on TPs, not getting textures to rez, etc. The world just doesn't seem as good as SL, despite having less of a central asset server load to cope with (odd, that). Cut-aways of sims loom up weirdly, landings are strange, log-outs abrupt.

I suppose Simone's next move should be to get some kind of takedown notice, and here's a giant BEWARE that is achieved by the ongoing presence of her locked-out content. GET IT IN WRITING. Or, in dealing with someone like LaLa, DON'T GET IT AT ALL.

And I have to say, that's just the problem with these worlds. A strong personality -- a typical prima diva with greater enthusiasm than intelligence and management skills -- gets one of these worlds working *better* -- and far less expensively than Linden land -- and everybody rushes to the doors. The rush isn't warranted -- yet. There are basic ingredients that just aren't present that need to be. Little things like "companies with responsible trustees" and "a company website that tells us the real-life names, addresses, and phone numbers of the people taking money" etc.

LCO has a little bit more of this than other such indie projects, but geez, their "About Us" page looks like a high school yearbook or a MySpace, not a serious company that you should give $100 a month to.

LaLa has also moved to ban Simone out of a German grid connected to her world run by Xumeo.

Looking at the Dedications page, I see a big shoutout to Whump Linden for his help to this newbie grid. He's of course one of the AWG opengrid Lindens working to hitch SL up to other grids -- a process LL doesn't discourage, but tries to subtly control. Sooooo what exactly is the relationship of LL to something like a big lockout of a content producer like this, that they may be declaring a "trusted grid"?! And LaLa must have Zha "Lite DRM" Ewry as an advisor for her concept of copyright, judging from her airy statements on the forums. Um, I guess Simone can always write to [email protected].  As I hope some readers will, expressing shock and outrage.

Imagine being so stupid as to risk the reputation of your fledgling world by being such an ass as to lock a free content giver who helped sell your sims and who adds lustre to your world. I don't care WHAT your disagreement is -- I'm not getting this. And like all SL dramas across the Metaverse, I'm sure there is more to this story, and like Urizenus says, perhaps it will come out in the comments : )

Comments

[Josh Eikenberry]

No contract? Really? All of this content production should have been laid out in a contract somewhere, very explicitly laid out. If it wasn't... well, der.

I've learned the hard way.. get it in writing.

[Darien Caldwell]

This is exactly what I've been expecting to happen to someone, on some grid. It's why I raised a cry of alarm when LL first talked about opening the asset server to 3rd party grids, back on the SL Dev list those many months ago.

3rd party grids are completely unregulated, and rest in the hands of people who, for the most part, don't have the ethics to safeguard the content of their residents. These grids are just a big lure to get people to bring in content, which the grid owners can then summarily sieze and sell as their own at any time.

For all the bad things I can say about LL, I at least believe they have the ethics and rules in place to minimize this sort of thing on an internal level.

Until a 3rd party grid is able to demonstrate a real desire to protect their resident's rights and property, and does so without any incidents for say, a year or so, I won't be setting foot in any of them.

[Ann Otoole]

Simone should have seen it before going there based on who the major players are there. Now TRU/LCO has her content free and clear and will no doubt be selling it.

[Dirk Talamasca]

Cool. Good Story. I enjoyed reading it. Thanks!

[Lucifer Baphomet]

I dont trust any of these third party grids which operate as commercial ventures.

None of this particularly surprises me.

[Chip Midnight]

For once I agree with you completely, Prok. For content producers to take any of these startup grids seriously they need to engender trust. We have to know that whoever is running them not only has good intentings towards protection of IP, but a legal, contractual obligation to do so. Otherwise how are we to know they aren't just operating a content syphon with the strong likelihood that your content will soon be for sale on every grid under someone else's name with no one to turn to to honor a takedown notice. Add to that the pressure already put on SL content creators by people who want to take the stuff they buy from you off to these other grids and not understanding why most of us currently don't want that to happen and you have a future that's looking more bleak instead of more promising.

Honestly I think LL allowing these copycat grids to spring up and operate before they've worked out intergrid connectivity, IP protection issues, and a licensing system that obligates grid operators to abide by a consistent set of laws, is a huge mistake. A story like this not only erodes trust in 3rd party grids, it erodes trust for the Second Life platform as a whole. For the life of me I can't figure out what LL was thinking. As it is now they have clones undercutting them on their biggest income source (land tier) and reinforcing the image of the SL platform as a haven for fraud and piracy. Their legal department should be thinking long and hard about the future of third party grids and how they operate, if it isn't already too late to tame the genie.

[MarillaAnne]

We decided to take the Open Sim risk in Legend City. Well then yesterday LaLa decided she had sold us a full sim ... yeah right ... I mean wrong. We aren't going in and neither are the 15 designers who were considering going in with us "for a practice run." Thankfully we were all tooo busy with Thanksgiving and Christmas to be patient with the horrible instability.

[MarillaAnne]

ish ... correction:

Open Sim should be Open SPACE ... as in ... We decided to take the Open Space ... yadda yadda

have fun

[Abby C]

This doesn't surprise me. I was in LC for about a month, Became a mentor and fully supported LC. The longer I was there, the less desirable LC became to me. Not because of the instability of the grid, but because of the instability of its owner. I witness many things that were not too *kosher* and was also told that the grid can be *unplugged* at anytime they so choose. Also that content can be copied. I don;t know about you all, but. eh...I don't really think someone of that stature should be *bragging* of their powers. That was enough for me to think the grid was being run with far less then professionalism and confidentiality. I, myself was cussed out not once but twice on skype by this owner and ended very badly. The professionalism of this grid and its owners, leaves little to be desired. Residents beware!

[anon]

Sounds to me like this was a deliberate grab of content from a well known designer. The "disagreement" was likely just an excuse to make it look legitimate

[LaLa Xevious - Legend]

Hello

After attempting to contact Simone, I feel it prudent to respond to something that is so far off the beat and path that I just needed say "something". As I left a message with Simone, I stated how disappointed I was that she would allow the writer of this blog (her friend) to say such things when her and I have been friends for some years. Never a squabble nor a quib between us and due to her not being able to pay her tier I am now some victim of someone's hearsay? Moreover implications of theft with her content? Thats a bit much for the cost of tier that is due me. To be correct I rather post this per our convos:

SKYPE - Prior to her moving in-

[11/11/2008 11:21:57 AM] simmylou says: sweetie what are your rates for land use
[11/11/2008 11:24:07 AM] Legend City says: we have open space sims $25 (just like sl with same limits), traditional regions 20k prims with mega prim usage, private MiG
[11/11/2008 11:24:11 AM] Legend City says: http://legendcityonline.com/landstore.php

That would be the intent on billing there - so that shouldnt be an issue.

Furthermore, I personally spoke to Simone in our Live Chat and here is that convo:

Please see the following links - i was going to copy/paste

http://www.legendcityonline.com/simone.html

All I can honestly say is that Simone has dodged my RL Phone Calls, my inquiries in SL, and I think that this blog is bullcrap and is extremely slanderous.

1. TRU Textures had presence in LCO waaay before a Simone made her way to the community.

2. Asri Falcone was not brought BY SIMONE or pioneered through efforts of Simone. lol this is rediculous. Asri is a staff member of Legend City and might I add ALSO was a friend of Simone Stern!

3. Linden Lab Research Locks accounts after 7 days of non payment and who the hell are you to tell me how to deal with my accounts? The fact is Simone stated she COULDNT AFFORD to get sims right away so I compensated her for 2 (TWO) FULL $100 Regions for 1 month. When that month came due she received a billing invoice just like everyone else. A week or so afterwards, she contacts live chat stating she STILL couldnt pay but intends to do so? OH BUT WAIT?! DOES THIS SOUND LIKE IM GOING ASTRAY FROM THE IMAGINARY "DEAL" YOU HAVE ME IN HERE IN THIS BLOG?...Give me a small break with this crap. I havent cheated her nor anyone else and I dont steal.

4. Wait I also, need to say that I havent sold 5000 sims in a manner of anything...we have about 350 sims and before she came we had about 330. Most of which are visitors from other worlds.

I feel this is just pretty sad and to see our friendship go thru such an extreme is just wrong.

I would ask that the writer of this blog please be astute enough to have your facts straight before you post fabrications about my company.

[James Stallings aka Hiro Protagonist aka Lazarus Longstaff]

Here's a heads up - I've said it a million times if I have said it once - and no doubt as long as idiots like Prok continue to perpetuate rumour, myth, and FUD, I will likely have to say it again: OpenSim software is *not* a reverse engineering of anything. It is from scratch, from the ground up. It uses netwrok protocols published in the clear by Linden Labs.

[Desmond Shang]

Very sorry to see all this happen.

I don't have nearly enough information to 'take sides' but obviously there is some kind of conflict.

From a purely theoretical standpoint, this is exactly the dangerous situation I was afraid that a 3rd party grid might get into. What will happen if the grid's ISP gets a content takedown order? I get the feeling we are about to find out.

[Melanie]

What worries me here is the insinuation that the Simone content is at risk, or that that content was the reason for inviting Simone to Legend City. As the owner of Xumeo, the "connected German grid", I am very concerned about this aspect, because we are not content thives.
The management of Legend City and Cumeo is committed to upholding content creators' rights and will not allow any content to be taken or copied.
As Legend City and Xumeo are tightly linked, anyone banned from one of them is also banned from the other. Otherwise, they could easily log into the other grid and then come back "through the back door".
Simone has been locked out according to the Legend City TOS, for the sole reason of nonpayment of tier fees due.
Her content from the welcome center has been deleted, while her sims remain as they were, pending payment of tier. This is also consistent with the way Linden Labs handles payment issues, sims are not immediately removed.
Any D$ paid to Simone Stern during the lockout are accruing to her account and will remain there. Upon payment of fees due, the account will be unlocked and Simone will then have access too those D$.
If Tier fees are not paid for a certain amount of time, the sims will be deleted as well. This still will not allow anyone access to the content. Of course, content already sold will remain in world, but will continue to be protected by the permissions system.
There is no reason to worry about content here, and not even reason for Simone to worry about being locked out, since simple payment of due fees will get her right back in.

[Prokofy]

James,

You are full of shit, as we all know. OpenSim makes use of the libsl code, which was, is, and shall always be reverse-engineered. That is stated openly by Adam and others; that is obvious to the untrained eye.

LaLa,

You're digging yourself in WAY deeper here, hon.

1. If the content isn't stolen, then it should all be returned to inventory, and the avatar deleted. Why is it still there? why is the landmark still leading to a store with $50 content that is selling into an account you've seized?

2. Your transcript hardly, hardly shows anything involving "intent to pay". It shows Simone asking the cost of your sims. Intent to pay would be represented by any sort of paid invoice, or an account generating a bill. There isn't a bill. There isn't an account with recurring fees. The sims were handed over.

3. There's nothing "slanderous" here, because you've definitely locked Simone out, you've taken over her stuff, and you don't have to have anything showing any "intent to pay" other than this lame-ass chat log which can hardly be interpreted as you say. You have no paid receipt, no PayPal, not invoice stamped.

4. Er, nobody said Asri was brought in by Simone. It merely states that she was there too among the other content makers.

5. Who the hell am I to tell you how to deal with your accounts? Um, a member of your world who was considering paying for it -- but who certainly won't now! A member of the general public who has a right to expect decent business practices. You don't appear to have any bill that was unpaid -- and Linden Lab doesn't permanently ban people for a mere non-payment of 7 days. They hold the content.

6. >Simone stated she COULDNT AFFORD to get sims right away

That's what I said. She did not wish to take on this obligation.

>so I compensated her for 2 (TWO) FULL $100 Regions for 1 month.

Wow, big deal! and that was the arrangement. and you go a huge-ass endorsement of your lame world, and you got loads of content that is now in your possession.

>When that month came due she received a billing invoice just like everyone else. A week or so afterwards, she contacts live chat stating she STILL couldnt pay but intends to do so?

Why would you be billing someone with whom you had an understanding that her FREE CONTENT and free word-of-mouth advertising was more than sufficient compensation?

>OH BUT WAIT?! DOES THIS SOUND LIKE IM GOING ASTRAY FROM THE IMAGINARY "DEAL" YOU HAVE ME IN HERE IN THIS BLOG?...

Um, it sounds like you have a different version of the story than Simone does. I'm reporting Simone's side. That's what I do. You've laid out your side in the comments, as I mentioned would be happening : )

But...your story doesn't fit. Because you first say you only had some chat that *you* think is indicative of intent to pay, but looks to anyone else outside of this as merely a query about rates, so as to understand in general what the world costs, to be able to tell people in an informational way.

>Give me a small break with this crap. I havent cheated her nor anyone else and I dont steal.

Return the content then, and stop using her trademark to advertise your world.

You haven't been straight about whether there is or isn't a bill. We could ask for screenshots, but they could be faked.

Fact is, for someone who got a boatload of free content, good will that is priceless, initially, and a boat load of word-of-mouth references, you've being awfully ungrateful in locking someone out after 7 days -- even if you had an actual hard and fast agreement to bill -- which it looks like you don't.

Oh, there aren't 5000 sims! Well, geez, I guess there are only...whatever you say. But it's impossible to say. The map doesn't pull up but lags out. I can see only a few sims in front of me at a time.

My facts are all straight. I will not be changing a thing blogged here. You need to return Simone's content -- and others need to beware of you.

[LaLa Xevious - Legend]

Yes I forgot to add that Melanie and thank you for pointing out that I gave her $15,000 Legend Dollars in the beginning to assist her with her uploads. She then further received $50,0000 Legend Dollars on top of it. So thats what so far? $200 for the sims she was comp and then given the equivalent of over $325usd - so.....thats about $500 bucks I am out of and I did what? To Who????

I just asked her like anyone else to pay tier. Per my post and showing you all proof of this, SHE INTENDED TO PAY IT lol so where did this imaginary deal come from? And why does everyone seem to think when a friend helps you out that they have be taken advantage of?

Again the print screens of that convo: http://www.legendcityonline.com/simone.html

[Stephen Psaltery]

James, that's not completely true. OpenSim is based on the library (formerly known as) libsecondlife. That library was created initially by running packet sniffers to reverse engineer the protocol. It wasn't until much later that things were made open source and documented.

Besides that, reverse engineering is not some dirty practice. Nor is it some sign of lack of skill on the developers part. On the contrary, reverse engineering takes A LOT more work and creativity than original creation.

[Prokofy]

As the owner of Xumeo, the "connected German grid", I am very concerned about this aspect, because we are not content thives.

Then...stop blocking Simone on LaLa's say-so, and get LaLa to enable Simone to delete her content, or ensure that LaLa deletes the content and avatar -- pronto.

>The management of Legend City and Cumeo is committed to upholding content creators' rights and will not allow any content to be taken or copied.

Says you and what army? The avatar is there; the content is there; the island named "Simone" with the landmark leading from the newbie welcome area is all there. I saw it all today. Well, get your little girlfriend here to TAKE IT DOWN if you really care about content control.

>As Legend City and Xumeo are tightly linked, anyone banned from one of them is also banned from the other. Otherwise, they could easily log into the other grid and then come back "through the back door".

That seems retarded. Is such tight linking really advisable? And since you ARE such a tight fit, how about getting your Siamese twin there to remove the content being swiped now?

>Simone has been locked out according to the Legend City TOS, for the sole reason of nonpayment of tier fees due.

Then...why is her sim open, her sim being advertised, and your Siamese twin getting the benefit of her content and reputation for her world?

>Her content from the welcome center has been deleted,

That seems to have been hastily done. Not an hour ago, I saw the welcome area with her trademark sign with a landmark leading to her sim. Why isn't that deleted?

>while her sims remain as they were, pending payment of tier.

But that's bullshit. You've heard what Simone is saying on this: there was no deal, there is no bill to be paid, there isn'ty any agreement, and she will not be cooperating. So make sure, if you value your reputation, that her stuff is returned and the account fully deleted.

>This is also consistent with the way Linden Labs handles payment issues, sims are not immediately removed.

Bullshit. Linden Lab does not sell their world by putting the content of a top designer in the welcome area to be used to flog their good image, and have that landmark lead to a store where they now seized the account and continue to get all the money paid into it. I've never seen them do anything like that.

>Any D$ paid to Simone Stern during the lockout are accruing to her account and will remain there.

How is she to get that money out when she's blocked?

>Upon payment of fees due, the account will be unlocked and Simone will then have access too those D$.

oh, so it's blackmail, is it? She says there isn't any agreement to bill, or agreement to pay. We don't see anything but a hugely lame and inconsequential chatlog -- pathetic.

>If Tier fees are not paid for a certain amount of time, the sims will be deleted as well.

Actually, NOW would be a good time to do that deletion, given your need for a good reputation.

>This still will not allow anyone access to the content. Of course, content already sold will remain in world, but will continue to be protected by the permissions system.

I'd have to check whether my freebie skins and clothes from Simone are copyable to others...

>There is no reason to worry about content here, and not even reason for Simone to worry about being locked out, since simple payment of due fees will get her right back in.

No, dude. You got that wrong. You are peddling the same suspect line here. If you care about the world and the future of protection of content, you should be weighing in with LaLa to make this right -- delete the content, close the account, move on.

[Morris Vig]

As an interested onlooker, I ask myself, "Who would I trust to run a grid professionally? Who would I want to give my money in exchange for some level of comfort that the services contemplated would be delivered?"

I then look at SLSecret. That pretty much answers my question.

Until I'm ready to do my own sim/grid - and that will be a while, as OpenSim still is pretty lousy - I'll stick with Linden Lab.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side, folks.

[LaLa Xevious - Legend]

I dont know who the hell you are Prokofy or Adam or whatever but the bottom line is this. "My friend" and I am using that loosely now, was coming over to open a store in my new community.

* She initially stated she couldnt afford sims due to whatever her reasons - so I comp'd her for a month?

* With that understanding, she was billed AFTER THAT MONTH! Period

* So a month and a half later mind you SHE - not I - stated that she INTENDS TO PAY ... if there was some outlying deal then wtf are you trying to imply? WHY the fuck would she say she is transferring money from accounts if she didnt intend to pay hmm?

*LindenLab does indeed cut off accounts and yes the sims and content remain for what an additional 30 to 60 days if i am not mistaken.

Her account has been suspended until it is paid and all of the MINIMAL content she put on her sim will continue to send all proceeds to her avatar. Period! Just like anyone else!

* To answer why her content was removed from the welcome area? Easy - EVERYONE that is a merchant in the welcome area knows that there is a 2 week cycle that is offered FOR FREE to all merchants who want a storefont as long as they give 'some' freebies. HER STUFF WAS UP FOR A MONTH AS A COURTESY TO HER!

"Cost? Free! For the moment, we will not charge for advertising of this area but you will be limited in time for occupying space! 2 weeks is the max time you will have to occupy storefronts in the welcome area."
http://www.gamerssoul.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84

Your facts are opinions and your witchhunt doesnt frighten me in the least. I deal with facts. And I have show the proof thereof in the link I provided showing the printscreen of Simone's and my convo. Im done....
http://www.legendcityonline.com/simone.html

[Prokofy]

Stephen, I'll have to disagree. Reverse-engineering *is* a dirty practice in the SL context. I have two words for you: Copy Bot.

Now, all you have to do is Google the terms "Open Sim" and "reverse-engineering" and see everybody from Gigs to Zha to dandelion talking about the REVERSE ENGINEERING. Hamlet even puts a key word in his blog every time with this word. This isn't "my" problem. It's a problem of these OS freaks that they can't even admit what they are doing.

[Morris Vig]

Apparently my HTML link didn't take. Here's the SLSecret link:

http://shoppingcartdisco.com/?cat=716

[Prokofy]

LaLa, you are digging in further.

>Yes I forgot to add that Melanie and thank you for pointing out that I gave her $15,000 Legend Dollars in the beginning to assist her with her uploads. She then further received $50,0000 Legend Dollars on top of it.

Uhhhhh could you let us know what a "Legend Dollar" is worth? In some universe outside the Legend of Your Own Mind? I don't see any sort of real valuation of this outside your own world. The thing about the Linden dollar is long before there was a LindEx we got to value it on the open market through the independent services of Gaming Open Market. The Linden worked out to be $4.25/1000 Lindens at its peak.

Does your friend Anshe Chung sell your currency on her exchange, for example?

>So thats what so far? $200 for the sims she was comp

But...you had her advertising power, her reputation, her word of mouth power. That's why you brought those content queens in there. We can all see that. OF COURSE they should get a free upload compensation, geez, they have gadzillions of texture to upload to give as freebies to YOUR PAYING customers.

And, we're not seeing any paperwork or claims or anything about any actual agreement. Because there wasn't any agreement for her to pay...just like there wasn't any agreement on her side for you to offer it for free. You both have nothing -- more's the pity. So knock it off with the claim that billing is warranted, delete the stuff, and move on.

>and then given the equivalent of over $325usd - so.....thats about $500 bucks I am out of and I did what? To Who????

Er, how are you "out" $200 bucks? Your cost for maintaining a sim on a server isn't $100 a month -- even with lower prices on your sims than the Lindens, we all get that.

And you had her help in building your customer list and selling your sims, whether 50 or 500, they still sold. So, delete her stuff, full stop.

>I just asked her like anyone else to pay tier. Per my post and showing you all proof of this, SHE INTENDED TO PAY IT lol

But, all you're showing us is a chat log in which she inquires what the rates are. That's all. Sure doesn't look like any intent to pay to me.

>so where did this imaginary deal come from? And why does everyone seem to think when a friend helps you out that they have be taken advantage of?

Yes, that's the story: she was your friend, she helped you out to build your world, and you took advantage of her.

>Again the print screens of that convo: http://www.legendcityonline.com/simone.html

You *do* realize how retarded that link is? It points us to a website where we can see that you have...something. Some sort of chat on file in your ticket system. But we can't access that ticket -- duh.

I don't care what it says. It's clear what's going on here. Whether you want to be charitable and call it "a misunderstanding" or uncharitable and call it a "rip-off" the end game is the same: delete the content and the avatar and the sim.

[Prokofy]

LaLa, are you daft? This link you keep printing goes to a page that shows nothing -- it merely shows the fact of some conversation for 13 minutes, but no content.

* With that understanding, she was billed AFTER THAT MONTH! Period

Obviously, that wasn't the understanding. And even if you *thought* it was, if you then confirmed that Simone did NOT wish to pay (you were calling her at her RL phone over and over) and did not wish to be PAYING for the WORK of having FREE CONTENT FOR NEWBIES put out on your world, then the obvious thing you would do is end the arrangement. Return the builds and the stuff to the account, delete the account.

>* So a month and a half later mind you SHE - not I - stated that she INTENDS TO PAY ... if there was some outlying deal then wtf are you trying to imply?

I have no dog in this hunt. I reported Simone's concerns. I took a look at your world -- which I had some misgivings about all on my own -- and I became concerned. I contacted other sources -- and I have their concerns, too, which they don't chose to express publicly or for attribution at this time.

>WHY the fuck would she say she is transferring money from accounts if she didnt intend to pay hmm?

Why the fuck would you lock out someone you thought had an intent to pay and create a scandal like this? That's what I'm not getting.

>*LindenLab does indeed cut off accounts and yes the sims and content remain for what an additional 30 to 60 days if i am not mistaken.

As I said, Linden Lab doesn't sell their sims with freebie content, and then lock out the people they got that from.

Again, show us the text of a written agreement -- but oh, there wasn't one. So, let that be a lesson to us all.

>Her account has been suspended until it is paid and all of the MINIMAL content she put on her sim will continue to send all proceeds to her avatar. Period!

But I saw the sim. There were tons of things there. There wasn't "minimal" content. There was a huge store full of blouses, jeans, dresses! I saw it!

You can't suspend an account and demand payment when you had no agreement to be billed. She didn't buy the sim -- you comped her on the set-up fee. But that doesn't mean you have a documented agreement to start up the billing meter after a month -- you don't.

>Just like anyone else!

But nobody else helped you sell your sims by giving you newbie content, duh.

>* To answer why her content was removed from the welcome area? Easy - EVERYONE that is a merchant in the welcome area knows that there is a 2 week cycle that is offered FOR FREE to all merchants who want a storefont as long as they give 'some' freebies. HER STUFF WAS UP FOR A MONTH AS A COURTESY TO HER!

You just instituted that dearie. I read your forums. You had the use of her content for months, and only now cooked up this concept of rotation, which you only just recently announced. Your own forums and announcments document that, duh.

>"Cost? Free! For the moment, we will not charge for advertising of this area but you will be limited in time for occupying space! 2 weeks is the max time you will have to occupy storefronts in the welcome area."
http://www.gamerssoul.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84

But that's something you *only now* instituted. It was NOT the deal when Simone came in, and all of us were ushered in there to pick up free newbie outfits at her store for WEEKS, and took it on faith that her presence MEANT SOMETHING.

>Your facts are opinions and your witchhunt doesnt frighten me in the least. I deal with facts.

Yeah. Me too. And your threats don't scare me either, dollface. I'm not engaged in a witch-hunt here. I'm reporting the story of an aggrieved party, my friend who praised your world, and got me and others to come on the strength of her endorsement, and who we now see is locked out, with her content in YOUR hands.

So delete it, and move on. Stop claiming you have some normal routine billing issue and are waiting for a payment -- SNORT.

>I have show the proof thereof in the link I provided showing the printscreen of Simone's and my convo. Im done....
http://www.legendcityonline.com/simone.html

This is the most peculiar thing of all, as it shows nothing.

[LaLa Xevious - Legend]

Ok - Now I feel that I am speaking with a minor. You obviously dont read Terms of Service for neither Linden Lab nor us. I think you shouting what I need to do about land you dont even own is a bit curious though. Specifically, when an account is banned in second life, people are able to continue shopping at the sim of or purchasing products of that person until either they a) pay their due or b) X time expires in which case Linden Lab deletes or auctions off your land and/or in world content.

I really dont give a poop whatcha say and I am not interested in your demands either.

>>>>But, all you're showing us is a chat log in which she inquires what the rates are. That's all. Sure doesn't look like any intent to pay to me.<<<<

Errmm - what about these statements are ambiguous for you? lmao i mean damn READ it and stop acting juvenile with these demands, you and this blog is not going to make me "do" anything with someone "else's" account (shakes head) I mean seriously!
Simone Stern : Hey LaLa, just letting you know that Im moving money out of SL to my paypal so I can pay the tier. I dont have any money in it at this time.
Simone Stern : I understand if you gotta freeze the acct till it's paid.
Simone Stern : LL takes what like 5 days to move money and I initiated payment a few hours ago when I saw an email from LC about it

AND

LaLa Legend : if you wanted to sign up in a week thats fine ...but there would be like i duno 10 or so days? with no pay? and advance hardly lol....there was no charge for the 1st month mama
Simone Stern : No, I understand that. I logged in spexcifically to *tell* you I was making arrangements to pay you so y9ou wouldnt be guyessing.

Come come now hun...stop seriously