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Eric Rice/Spin Martin

Having nothing to do with this topic (other than the intro), I had the pleasure to run across user: 'a Apple' whose rez date was sometime in 2002. Guy from Europe. I felt like I was looking at a legendary flying Pokemon or something. (yes his first name was 'a')

Prokofy Neva

Yes, a Apple actually exists, you have to use search/all to pull him up. He was the first Alphabet avatar, long before Alphabet Lindens! He's from Croatia evidently. God knows how he got himself on to SL in 2002 lol.

There's a famous oldbie Candie Apple from 2003 who puts on her profile that she had an even older account from 2002.

Amazing to think of.

You *should* grapple with the content, Eric, you're smart. You're capable of thinking beyond all the set little geek pieces. You've the arguments a zillion times. YOU probably think TOO that walled gardens don't work and you need some spiffy opensource thingie. But even you would be given pause, five years into this thing, when you see no viable competitors, when you know that OpenSim is a sham, and when there isn't anything else, and even this is possibly more fragile than we know.

So opening its server code, or making it pure platform, isn't the answer. It won't work.


Looks like Christmas had mature search on. Zyngo and sex beds do come up in the first hit for "car." The second hit is already useful, though.

Prokofy Neva

No, I have mature search checked off too.

I'm looking in search/places for the word "car" or "cars"(he said "car" in our chat).

There is no Zyngo whatsoever.

There is something called "Paradise Pleasure Sex Beach" but it has a car park in it, which, of course, is a very American make-out kind of scene. So it does have cars.

He could uncheck the mature if his eyes are soiled by such things, which have put something legitimately in search, as they do have car parks.

If "Greece Digital" with its 90,000 traffic seems botted, skip to the next few. They are authentic places with cars in them, even if botted. If you fear botted up places and want authenticity, do what everyone using these lists does without even thinking: curse down more, and get to the lower part of the first page, then page into the next pages.

Plenty of car shops, mainly of the police sort, but still, of all kinds. "Cars" would work better. Unchecking mature would remove the sex beds.

And please, don't be stupider in SL than you are out on Google.

Type two words, like "car shop". Duh? Much?

And find a nice, neatly-sorted readable useful non-botted list that has car shops.

Honestly, you people should be slapped, and slapped hard. Stop lying. Stop lying. Stop lying.

Clubside Granville

One type of shopping that is related to the profile picks mentioned is one I use often: right-clicking on objects to find the creator. I find an equal number of things this way when exploring as I do knowing a type of product I want and searching. I don't know how widespread this is but I'd hope other people know to do this when they see something they like.

Prokofy Neva

Oh, absolutely, I constantly do this and tell others to do it. The thing is, the right-clicking to find the creator is nearly the same thing as the following of a profile pick, because the only way you can then find a store of that creator is if he has his own store in his own picks or classifieds. Sadly, not everybody thinks to do this, and sometimes you have to IM the creator and ask them where their store is if you can't find it in search/all by their name.

Ciaran Laval

I think you're using different search/places mechanisms. Using the places tab brings up Zyngo and sexbeds, using the places drop down from the first search tab does not.

This actually exemplifies that the newer search system works better than the old one.

Coco's position is interesting, I'm very reluctant to buy a building if I can't see it inworld, pictures don't do justice to buildings. However it's useful to be found on Xstreet so people can then TP to these merchants, but inworld search will surely still be more beneficial to Coco.

As for the magic box going, if the Linden's put a tick box similar to show in search on prims, such as "Show on Xstreet" they'd force all Xstreet listings to be available to look at inworld, they'd also cause a furore with users but it would protect the concept of Tier being the backbone of the business model.

Prokofy Neva

Ciaran, I'm talking about search button with places tab -- there isn't any other way to get places.

yesterday, the "Zyngo" was not showing on the first page. Today, it is. I went to this parcel, Within one step of the landing, there was a booth with a vendor selling motorcycles and cars. You or an ancient tekkie like "Christmas Money" may find it repugnant that a mall like this sells sex and Zyngo and cars all together, but the cars are indeed here.

There look to be about 6 bots in the sky in a row.

Ciaran Laval

The first Search tab has a places dropdown, so yes there is another way to get to places. It's odd how I and two others saw the Zyngo and sex beds and you saw no sign of them if you were just using the places tab.

I don't find a mall selling sex repugnant, heck my tenants sell adult items, I have a few into Gor for a start, nor do I find Zyngo repugnant, but I do feel that the newer search is superior.

Prokofy Neva


When you fetch up SEARCH ALL, you get go underneath it to the tabs that have PLACES.

And if you use the SEARCH button at the bottom of the screen, it pulls up *the exact same set of tabs*.

It's not like it's a "different" places if you pull it up from SEARCH ALL than it is if you pull it up from SEARCH. It's the same places.

And no, I looked at it over and over again, even with "mature" checked off, and there was no Zyngo last night. Today, there was.

This could simply be a matter of when it updates. It shows up on one search on the first page, but then more traffic on other spots pushes it down.

The newer search is not superior, Ciaran. Only geeks looking at this problem through the geek keyhole think that, because they imagine that the best search is always the one that spits up the most data. That's the geeky way to think of things.

But it's not. SEARCH ALL on cars is a mad mess, like on any word. You have to have a lot of patience to scroll past not "camped places" but individual avatar names that could be using that word, or their picks that have a description on the back of it or even some town hall transcript. It's a God-awful grab bag of jumbles.

There is nothing "better" about it until you finally fight your way through the thicket of crap, and find a store you do want to get, then you can see what's individually for sale in that store -- and go through the annoyance of first searching that sim's name, and pulling up the map, then plugging in the coordinates for that object, and hitting search again (there isn't a way to type both name and coordinates at once into the map, that never works, one of the major annoyances of SL).

Meanwhile Search/Places is far, far, far cleaner. Use the right key word or WORDS and you get cleaner results, even allowing for a 1st or 2nd gamed spot. This is proven again and again and again and again by real people using it this way to make purchases. If you don't want people to buy easily with the best form of search that gives them not only a cleaner set of results in PLACES and also gives them a direct teleport to that place with that key word, then fine, Ciaran, be right, be geeky, but be poor and don't make sales.

That's all.

Ciaran Laval

Oh FFS, Prok, when you fire up Search there's a tab called places. Fire up search, you have All, classifieds, events, Showcase, land sales, PLACES, people, groups.

The PLACES I highlighted in caps is the one that's full of crap, yes it will give different results.

If you go to search all and select places from the dropdown, you get less crap results, hence it's a better search system. There's nothing geeky about this, it's an easy observation to make.

Prokofy Neva

Once again, Ciaran, you are hilarious. And For Fuck's Sake right back at you.

The PLACES tab you get from SEARCH ALL, and the PLACES tab coming up from SEARCH, they're uh...the same PLACES.

They aren't "different" places with different results. It's not like "one turns up crap" and "the other doesn't. The PLACES in both places are the same PLACES. Exactly the same thing. Can you grasp that? Test it.

Ciaran Laval

I have tested it, are you having me at it?

The top five results when I go to Search and use the dropdown for places using the term car are;

Car Wash Region
Car Wash - The Waiting Room Lounge
Mercedes Benz - car auto driving racing luxury car vehicle
Car Wash - Shopping
Car Wash - Streets of Car Wash.

Note, lots of places about cars.

When I use the places tab, the top 5 results are:

Greece Digital
Carducci Guns weapons motorcycles
The Best Skins Shapes - Skins Shap
!Police Shop Uniform Army
Paradis Please Sex Beach.

Note, not many obvious results for cars.

Different results though, without any shadow of a doubt.

Ann Otoole

CAR is the name of a rifle. Thus weapons stores show up when searching for a CAR.

"The first carbine version of the M16 assault rifle appeared under the name of CAR-15 in 1965, an was intended for US Special Forces who fought in Vietnam."

I'm not at all surprised searching for a specific rifle would turn up weapons stores.

Prokofy Neva

No, Ciaran, you must have an SL that simply works differently than mine for some reason, perhaps with a different viewer, or you are doing something different than I am, because I'm getting the exact same results whether I use either method.

So let me go into more detail.

If by "drop down menu" you mean going to the top menu bar, and selecting "edit" and then "Search" and then "car" I get this four at the places tab:

Best Places
! Police

But nobody ever does it that way, so I can't believe you're talking about that way -- but it merely pulls up the exact same interface.

If I go to the upper right-hand corner of the menu bar, where the little magnifying glass is, and I press on the magnifying glass WITHOUT putting a search word in it, I get a tabbed menu. I wouldn't call that a "drop-down menu" but merely a tabbed menu.

On it is is Places. Here, I type in "car" and I get the exact same four I just got the other way.

OR, I go to the bottom of the screen, I push the SEARCH button on the lower middle menu bar. In fact, when I pull it up, it has retained the search results from my last method of accessing them.

So for fuck's sake, as you would put it, I put in the word "car" again and I get...drumroll...the exact same four results again. And that's not a surprise, given that this is the exact same tabbed menu. It doesn't change because i've accessed this same menu from three different methods.

Mature is checked off.

I have Second Life 1.21.6 installed.

I have Windows XP on this machine with these results, but on another machine I have Windows Vista -- same exact thing. I have SL *for the PC* downloaded.

Now, I bet the issue here is that you have a Mac? That would be the typical geeky male thing. That's the only thing I could figure could be rendering such different results -- and actual different interface from different software.

AND I've done a fourth thing, which I distinguished from the very, very beginning. Which is NOT NOT NOT using "search/places/traffic sort" but the grab-bag of SEARCH ALL.

Here's what I do:

1. Go up to the upper right hand corner with the magnifying glass

2. Type in the word car -- *Note I am not using places, I am using SEARCH ALL, the giant, retooled new SEARCH ALL the Lindens made.

3. This opens up the tabbed menu, but PLACES IS NOT USED. It gives me results, and here are the results you're speaking of:

Car Wash
Car Wash
Mercedes Benz
Car Wash

But that's not what I've ever been talking about. Because that's using the new search all, not the search places. BTW, if, while in this "search all" I go press places and research, I still get the same Greece, Carducci, etc.

And again, my point is that SEARCH ALL works for some things to clean out the traffic-gamed sites, but it can also be a huge stupid grab bag of stuff.

For example, look at what the hell I've gotten from this really stupid geeky SEARCH ALL. I've gotten three times here *a region named Car Wash*. It's some kind of RP place or build like the 1950s. It isn't a place likely to have *cars for sale*.

Keep scrolling, and what other JUNK do I get that is USELESS FOR SHOPPING. I get a fucking WIKI about cars and vehicles, like I wanted that crap when I am SHOPPING, Ciaran?

Keep going, and I get an avatar named car Baxter. And so on and so forth. SEARCH ALL is a big grab bag of places, avatars, wikis other extraneous Linden junk they threw in there. IT IS USELESS FOR EXPLORATION AND SHOPPING. It is only good if you want to get, say, EVERYTHING there is to get about "Prokofy Neva" or something.

So once again, Ciaran, YOU ARE NOT USING SEARCH/PLACES 'DROPDOWN' WHEN YOU USE SEARCH ALL. That's the fucking problem. Try to grasp that. They are DIFFERENT interfaces with DIFFERENT principles.

Look carefully at what you are doing, step by step. You will see you haven't clicked on PLACES at all. IF you do from "search all" you will get Greece, Carducci.

I dunno. I rest my case on this. Geeks are retarded. They cannot help us with our issues on search and shopping. They refuse to listen to the truth of what is happening, and keep looking through the geek keyhole, and keep in fact LYING about the results, whether out of ignorance or deliberate malice.

Prokofy Neva

Once again, to simplify this completely, because you are stupid:



Go step by step and be honest about what you are doing, and you'll see there is no "drop down of places". There's merely the results of your search/all search! Press on the places tab and get the same Greece, Carducci that I've just pulled up and replicated again 3 ways.

Be honest about what you see, Ciaran, For Fuck's Sake. ALL is what is highlighted on your SEARCH ALL magnifying glass box search results. PLACE is not highlighted because it wasn't clicked. Click on it, and see DIFFERENT FUCKING RESULTS.

Ciaran Laval

What are you talking about? I used the category drop down on search all and from that menu I selected Places. So I'm searching, places.

So yes, there is very much a dropdown of places. Stop being silly about this.

If I don't select the places category and leave it on the any category the results include people, groups, wiki entries and events. So if I just want places returned I select, from the dropdown category option, places.

So there are two ways of searching places, I have no idea why you're even debating this when it's clear as day that I'm right about this.

Disagreeing with me that using Search/All and then selecting the category places from the dropdown menu is a superior form of searching is fine, but arguing with me that it doesn't exist is plain silly.

Prokofy Neva

Ciaran, you are impossibly dense, stubborn, and stupid.

There isn't any "dropdown of places" in "search all".

What you are doing is SWITCHING FROM searc/all to PLACES on the tabs. Duh!

Picking places can be done 3 different ways -- but you are switching INTO search/places which searches DIFFERENTLY than search/all.

I really have to marvel once again how stubborn-assed dumb you geeks are.

You are SWITCHING from search/all to the places tab when you search that way.

I've told you there are three ways of accessing search/places. You've merely picked one of them, and somehow mistakenly believed that you are in "search/all with a dropdown".

But you are in search/places.

Once again, Ciaran, when you get the results Car Wash, etc. you are using ONLY SEARCH ALL. You aren't using Search Places. Any idiot can see that just checking it inworld on the user interface.

If you then use the places tab, you get Greece, Carducci, etc.

And what's most operative about this entire discussion is your inability to admit that a) search/all produces lots of crap and b) search/places in face produces pretty good results, once you either a) chose better search words and phrases or b) simply skip over the first few gamed spots.

Seriously, it is just so FUCKING DUPLICITIOUS to keep claiming you are in "search/all" when you have *moved out of it* into the places tab, and then are searching in search/places.

Go and look at what you are doing. If you have the results "car wash," you are simply not in search/places, but in search all .DUH. Be honest, for once Ciaran, instead of stubborn and pig-headed.

Ciaran Laval

Prok are you honestly telling me that you are incapable of selecting the places category in search all? Are you honestly and truly telling me this that you cannot see the categories?

I am not switching to the places tab, when I use the places tab, as I told you, I get different results. When I use the places category from the dropdown in search all I am searching places in a different way and hence get different results.

Search all has categories, the default is any category, go take a look. I am not making this up.

You're being completely ridiculous over this. There is a places category in Search All.

Prokofy Neva

If anyone ever needed proof as to why we need to get rid of the geeks in SL because they not only block progress but lie about the facts, Ciaran's posts are it.

SEARCH/PLACES is not a "dropdown" of SEARCH/ALL. It returns DIFFERENT results, whether you come to it through the edit button or the search button or the search all box.

The results you are getting with "Car Wash" come from SEARCH ALL. They do NOT come from SEARCH PLACES. Go inworld, track what you are doing, and be honest about this, you asshole. Stop pretending it's MY problem, when I have gone in, replicated this now 4 times, to see if in fact you have some kind of point.

You don't. Your head is deeply up your ass.

The returns you claim are from some putative "dropdown of places in search/all" is in fact ONLY the search/all returns.

Tab to search places, and you will get DIFFERENT results.

Ciaran Laval

Yes that's what I said from the start, if I use the places tab, I get different results than if I use search all and then select the places dropdown, I posted the different results earlier.

It's not my fault you can't figure out that if you search for places you're not searching all, hence why there's a category tab where you select a bloody drop down that lets you search places and hey, surprise surprise the results returned are for places.

You are being completely bloody idiotic over this. If I don't select the places dropdown from the categories in search all I don't get results that are just for places, I get people, wiki entries, events, groups too.

So if I just want to search for places, I select, from the category drop down, places.

Stop being so bloody pigheaded.

Now if I do search all by the way I still get the car wash results, but scan down a bit further and if you haven't used the places dropdown from the category tab you will see the Car Wash group and a wiki entry on page one, if I select "Places" from the dropdown and then click search, they don't appear, because they're not places.

I never said it was the same as using the places tab, I said it was different and generates different bloody results.

Prokofy Neva


I used to have *some* respect for your, despite your self-interested, pigheaded posts constantly pouring the water on your own mill with your geeky understanding of what is good for the rentals biz and the economy. You've consistently been counterintuitive in ways that make no sense unless you see it as part of the geek keyhole "no business but my business" common theme of SL.

But now I have ZERO respect for you. NONE.

Because you are utterly dishonest here, because you are doubling back, and lying about what you have obviously said and which the record here absolutely shows.

I can't for the life of me understand why you'd do some an obviously stupid thing, but vanity and the vain desire to cover your ass creates such illusions, I guess.

You did not say any such thing from the start. You claimed that in SEARCH ALL box, there was a "drop down" of "places".

But there isn't.

Search with PLACES, or moving to PLACES from search/all, produces the same goddamn results, as any child can see.

um, you're the pighead here, unable to grasp that SEARCH/PLACES exists apart from SEARCH ALL in three ways -- and indeed most certainly is searching:

1. from the edit menu
2. from the search button with the PLACES tab
3. from the places tab when coming OUT of search/all


And duh, you get everything -- the kitchen sink -- in SEARCH ALL. Which YOU claim is better merely because the Lindens do not have trafficed/gamed sites showing up first in it. That's why you were flogging it -- and even claiming you got a further refinement of it from search/places.

But you most certainly DO NOT get any further refinement from this "pull down". You merely LEAVE search/all.

And it's just as if you had accessed PLACEs from the plain SEARCH button which is merely a direct to the TABs. Duh.

If you select places, you get what you'd get had you bypassed SEARCH ALL *completely*.

You most certainly DID NOT say it was different. You're saying this NOW after being called on your bullshit 10 times.

You claimed search/all with "the places pulldown" was giving you "car wash" and that was better.

I pointed out the utter bullshit and incorrectness of this 3 times.

The record shows it, stop being an asshole.

The reason "they don't appear" in places is because it's no longer search/all, but merely the old search with the places tab.

The Lindens maintain TWO search functions, in part because we all screamed bloody murder at their notion of SEARCH ALL which is deeply fucked in many ways -- too much clutter, too many objects, etc. But they don't care. They are enamored of the Internet of Things, and not of the Internet of People.

Fuck them, and fuck you. People use search/places because it's a WORLD and it has PEOPLE in it.

Ciaran Laval

No, again you're wrong and I can't for the life of me grasp why you can't see that there's a places tab in search all, that lets you search places.

I've said this all along, you on the other hand are consistently ignoring the fact that the category dropdown on the search all page contains a places category that lets you search places.

I've said this from the start and only your sheer bloody mindedness is preventing you from acknowledging that this dropdown menu exists.

Now if you'd bother to go to search all and look to the left of the tick box to include mature content you'd notice it says any category, and if you click on the box you get a dropdown menu and there is an option for....places.

So yes, you can search places from search all and yes there is a dropdown, so no I wasn't lying, and no it doesn't mean clicking on the places tab, it gives different bloody results to the places tab, which I bloody well posted.

If you select places from the dropdown of course you get further refinement, because it only returns places, it doesn't return wiki entries, events and groups.

So keep calling me a liar if it suits your ego, but you're wrong about this and you know it.

Yes I do think finding results for car wash is better than finding results for Zyngo when I search for car, but we can agree to disagree on that as it's a matter of opinion, disagreeing with me on a matter of fact is churlish in the extreme.

Cristalle Karami

Search > Places Tab, for car, no quotations around the word, mature search on gives me:

Police Shop
Soul Skins & Shapes on Brasil Shopping
Carducci Guns Weapons Motorcycles, etc.
Paradise Pleasure Sex Beach
Racers Island Raceways

Using Search All, places category:

Car Wash Region
Car Wash, The Waiting Room Lounge
Mercedes Benz
Car Wash - Shopping
Car Wash - Streets of Car Wash.

Using Search All, any category:

Same results as search all, places category.

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