"A Real Ear"

Back at the Dam again after missing a few weeks due to being busy in RL or not being able to even log on and teleport, SL was so messed up last week.

If you wade into the depths of this thread on the Community Partnership program, you would have to say in fairness the Lindens are trying -- and look what they have to work with. The usual group of sychophants and malcontents that don't put any peas in their pot.

Why?

A resident suggests what he wants out of the Lindens is "a real ear".

But the Lindens must be suffering from Meniere's Disease because they have sliced off their ears and handed them to the residents over and over and -- look what it has gotten them.

Still, I'm never that sorry. As I have to keep saying, we have been on the Mainland all these years in fact adding value and improving the view and doing all the things that the Lindens have only just began. Rather than trying to railroad us into their fake communities they should really fly around a lot more and listen. They aren't really doing this for "the community," however but are doing it "for the product". It's marketing. It's not personal.

However, once again, it's not going to work.

[18:22]  Crap Mariner: cool
[18:22]  Prokofy Neva: Hi
[18:22]  Bane Martinek: Hello
[18:25]  Crap Mariner: 99.5F
[18:25]  DJQuad Radio: hey all. sorry back
[18:25]  Bane Martinek: welcome back
[18:25]  DJQuad Radio: where are we btw?
[18:26]  DJQuad Radio: hey bane
[18:26]  DJQuad Radio: ty
[18:26]  Bane Martinek: Hello Djquad
[18:26]  Bane Martinek: oh jane there you are
[18:26]  Prokofy Neva: Hi
[18:26]  Georgianna Blackburn: hello
[18:26]  Lusciouslumpchunks McMillan: come sit by me
[18:26]  Lusciouslumpchunks McMillan: hehehe ty
[18:27]  DJQuad Radio: this isnt a free gay sex place right?
[18:27]  Georgianna Blackburn: hahah
[18:27]  Bane Martinek: I think not :)
[18:27]  Prokofy Neva: no
[18:27]  Lusciouslumpchunks McMillan: and we brought all this lube for nothing then :(
[18:28]  Kianeira MacDiarmid: Crap you are a girl?
[18:28]  Prokofy Neva: Oh, it's Jumpman here to grief
[18:28]  Prokofy Neva: bye
[18:28]  DJQuad Radio: well prokofy is russian for gay. sorry i didnt know
[18:28]  Avatar ejected.
[18:28]  Prokofy Neva: Hi, Arifi haven't seen you in a while
[18:28]  Georgianna Blackburn: hi ya Crap!
[18:29]  Crap Mariner: hi
[18:29]  Prokofy Neva: Hi June
[18:29]  June Trefoil: Hi :)
[18:29]  Kianeira MacDiarmid: I am so confused. I always thought Crap was a guy
[18:29]  Prokofy Neva: he's a robot
[18:29]  Jamais Dubratt: hi
[18:29]  Bane Martinek: I assumedhe was male as well
[18:30]  Prokofy Neva: I have to find the link to the blog in case somebody didn't see it
[18:30]  Prokofy Neva: brb
[18:30]  Kianeira MacDiarmid: i didn't see it
[18:30]  Kianeira MacDiarmid: what a lovely example in the center
[18:31]  Prokofy Neva: Hey, how do you like Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize just as he is about to send more troops to Afghanistan, Crap?
[18:31]  Bane Martinek: Your latest Prokofy, havent read it yet
[18:31]  Prokofy Neva: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2009/09/30/community-partnership-program-is-now-open
[18:31]  Prokofy Neva: ok that's the Linden blog explaining the program
[18:32]  Crap Mariner: The Nobel Peace Prize Committee will be giving out Anybody But Bush Awards for the next century or so, I figure.
[18:32]  Bane Martinek: perhaps he's afk prokofy, if I might, it is a call to action and soetimes actio means warfare
[18:32]  Prokofy Neva: it now has a wiki too with its arcane rules about how residents on this free Linden land to be added to their communtiies can use eject but not ban, that's what it amounts to
[18:32]  Crap Mariner: Even Lotus123 Linden says it's too soon. Lech Walesa is stunned. Go figure.
[18:32]  Prokofy Neva: I'd like to think they gave it to him to stay his hand in Afghanistan
[18:33]  Prokofy Neva: well if you've been following that thread, it has been remarkable in its way
[18:33]  Crap Mariner: I think they should wait for him to lose in 2012, spend 30 years being a sanctimonious asshole and Jew-hater, and then Carter him. *shrug* The guy's an empty suit.
[18:33]  Prokofy Neva: Carter him lol
[18:33]  Bane Martinek: The man will win the foreign wars
[18:33]  Georgianna Blackburn: Hi there Agile
[18:34]  AgileBill Firehawk: hi all!!
[18:34]  Bane Martinek: I'm all for him.
[18:34]  Crap Mariner: If I gave a rat's ass what Norwegians think, I'd have Jarlsberg on my cheeseburgers.
[18:34]  Prokofy Neva: The man is distracting men's minds with foreign wars.
[18:34]  Jane Shelter: How do you figure Bane?
[18:34]  Kianeira MacDiarmid: Did he win it?
[18:34]  Bane Martinek: Well wars are meant to be one once they are started.
[18:34]  Bane Martinek: I'm sure he will decide on a troop build up.
[18:34]  AgileBill Firehawk: hi CM!
[18:34]  Crap Mariner: hi
[18:35]  Bane Martinek: no one is reelected for ending a war without victory
[18:35]  Bane Martinek: not in the united states anyway.
[18:35]  Bane Martinek: sorry won not one .
[18:36]  Prokofy Neva: Lotus123 Linden? you mean Mitch? did he really?!
[18:36]  Bane Martinek: I'm all for Obama. That's all I mean.
[18:36]  Kianeira MacDiarmid: I didn't think winning wars was still how they play the world power game.
[18:36]  Crap Mariner: http://twitter.com/mkapor/status/4735970328 This Obama supporter also thinks Nobel Peace Prize premature.
[18:36]  Prokofy Neva: I was going to have my Afghan war discussion tomorrow at the Council on Virtual Relations
[18:37]  Prokofy Neva: wow what do you know
[18:37]  Bane Martinek: it's how The United States has since Teddy Roosevelt, another nobel peace prize winner and Mk? did he indeed?
[18:37]  Kianeira MacDiarmid: I was not for either person they offered us. But, voted for the other one.
[18:37]  Crap Mariner: I think I'll stick with: BREAKING NEWS: Stephen Hawking has just won "Dancing With The Stars."
[18:37]  Quinn Houston: Is this meeting about Linden stuff? or maybe I misunderstood?
[18:37]  AgileBill Firehawk: LOL!
[18:37]  Prokofy Neva: Crap you're awful
[18:37]  Prokofy Neva: yes it is
[18:37]  Prokofy Neva: tomorrow is Afghan war
[18:38]  Prokofy Neva: today is Mainland war
[18:38]  Quinn Houston: :)
[18:38]  Prokofy Neva: different
[18:38]  Kianeira MacDiarmid: I don't watch television.
[18:38]  AgileBill Firehawk: a good policy Kia
[18:38]  Bane Martinek: Sthephen Hawking is a great mind, that seems a mite intolerant
[18:38]  Prokofy Neva: And the thread, if you wade into it, is quite remarkable in that Blondin Linden has been forced to really talk to people, and face his critics
[18:38]  Prokofy Neva: frankly I called him on the usual Linden social engineering
[18:38]  Prokofy Neva: where they use the silent treatment or they answer with pablum
[18:38]  Bane Martinek: Isnt he that guy
[18:39]  Prokofy Neva: I wonder if the Lindens are desperate, in a way. I mean, who is signing up for this? they have MarkTwain White, who is also visible in this thread posturing and rewriting history
[18:39]  Bane Martinek: no that was Chadrick
[18:39]  Prokofy Neva: I don't know if it will be possible to change the guidelines now
[18:39]  Tammy Nowotny: hello everyone
[18:39]  Prokofy Neva: but the hoops are too high for people, there are too many requirements, and they spent months figuring out how to exempt MarkTwain from them and then force others to abide by them
[18:39]  Georgianna Blackburn: hi Tammy
[18:39]  June Trefoil: I wonder if the CPPis offered to un[piss people off, to counter the favoritsim charge?
[18:39]  Jane Shelter: hello Tammy
[18:39]  Zotarah Shepherd: HI Tammy
[18:40]  Prokofy Neva: For example, the rules talk about the need to have a "vote" of your group whether to go in this program. I don't think MTW had a "vote"
[18:40]  Prokofy Neva: well June I was hoping that too at first
[18:40]  AgileBill Firehawk: hi Zo!
[18:40]  Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Bill
[18:40]  June Trefoil: I think LL wants the grop leaders to deal with the messienss (disagreements and stuff) then talk to LL
[18:40]  Prokofy Neva: I was hoping that they were finally formalizing the FIC criteria so that the long-awaited path to the FIC was now visible, so that you wouldn't have to go to virus-laden third-party sites to see the cheats and walkthroughts, that you could now see it ingame
[18:41]  Bane Martinek: welli for one believe that the ccp will help build mainland communities.
[18:41]  Bane Martinek: people should just apply
[18:41]  Bane Martinek: swing for the fences
[18:41]  Prokofy Neva: Yes they want to first initiate conflict within a group and have them fight each other whether to join, then split off the compliant ones who will join and dump the others who were probably the ones who made all the content in the first place lol
[18:41]  Bane Martinek: see what happens
[18:41]  Bane Martinek: the surfing community foroneseems to be gaining traction
[18:42]  Prokofy Neva: I thought that at first too, although I didn't want to apply with Ravenglass Rentals, but I thought perhaps the resident development infohubs or the land preserve groups could apply, but I have to say, I didn't find people who wanted to apply
[18:42]  Prokofy Neva: they were all skeptical
[18:42]  June Trefoil: yes pretty transparent, no? clear road :)
[18:42]  Prokofy Neva: well that might work Bane yes
[18:42]  Crap Mariner: I'm not sure what they can offer these folks. Reduced tier? Access/high priority on the destination blog and showcase replacement? Announcements?
[18:42]  Prokofy Neva: wellll it's not so transsparent
[18:42]  Prokofy Neva: oh certainly not reduced tier Crap
[18:42]  Bane Martinek: well an beautiful island and nice waves
[18:42]  Prokofy Neva: I thin kI've outlined what the goods are that they offer but they don't explain it
[18:42]  Georgianna Blackburn: the music community sounded like they were going to jump on this
[18:43]  Bane Martinek: those are the sorts of thing i thingk the lab could provide
[18:43]  Crap Mariner: Mark Twain got a bunch of free water sims.
[18:43]  Bane Martinek: along with sim crossing support
[18:43]  Prokofy Neva: what they offer is the newbie stream to your land from orientation; MOTD exposure; blog coverage; so it's advertising and customers flows
[18:43]  Bane Martinek: for events
[18:43]  June Trefoil: I hope so Georigiana
[18:43]  Prokofy Neva: well you get free sims, but...you ahve to then ahve some activity on them
[18:43]  Prokofy Neva: The USS claims that these sims are open to the public, and yet the public cannot get in the way of yacht races
[18:43]  Bane Martinek: wellyou have to have a sim moved near mainland
[18:43]  Bane Martinek: then you do indeed reciev open sims
[18:43]  Bane Martinek: water for sailing forexample
[18:43]  Bane Martinek: um as i understand it
[18:44]  Prokofy Neva: it's true that you can sort of boat around in off hours and the few who have done that become then indignant fanboyz on the forums saying, oh, but it really is open, but then there's always stories of people being ejected because they got in the way of some Virtual Gatsby's yacht
[18:44]  Bane Martinek: events are a criteria
[18:44]  Prokofy Neva: The thing is, what if you are ALREADY on the mainland?
[18:44]  Prokofy Neva: that part they are terribly vague on
[18:44]  Kianeira MacDiarmid: I used to own half a sim that connected to Blake sea and it was mainland.
[18:44]  Prokofy Neva: it is suppoesd to be FOR the mainland, but it is really FOR private island empires
[18:44]  Starbaby Vezina: How many sims does Ravenglass have?
[18:44]  Bane Martinek: how do you mean prokofy?
[18:45]  Tammy Nowotny: the yachting never seemed like that uch fun to me. it was OK, but it wasn't the be all and end all
[18:45]  Prokofy Neva: I have 14 sims of land spread out over about 55 sims now
[18:45]  Crap Mariner: *shrug* Another magnanimous gesture that's hollow on the specifics.
[18:45]  Bane Martinek: well it is to add vitality to the mainland
[18:45]  Prokofy Neva: well it's prefabricated vitality tho
[18:45]  Prokofy Neva: Bane what I'm saying is
[18:45]  Starbaby Vezina: 14 sims on 55 sims? what? lol
[18:45]  Bane Martinek: yes?
[18:46]  Tammy Nowotny: well a prefab is better thnothing
[18:46]  Prokofy Neva: let's say I have 4 sims in the public land preserve even next to each other, they are landlocked, they are with rivers inland, not along the edge of Second Life's continents
[18:46]  Prokofy Neva: so they can't pull up 10 water sims or 10 any sims
[18:46]  Prokofy Neva: they can't move my mainland sims anywhere
[18:46]  Prokofy Neva: unless I happen to be along the outward coast
[18:46]  Tammy Nowotny: he maneans he has about 14 times the size of a single sim, on 55 different sims
[18:46]  Prokofy Neva: to be sure they coul djust completely move me to a coastal sim I guess, but what they are doing is in fact making mainland out of private islands along the edges
[18:47]  Bane Martinek: Well if you are already on the mainland you dn't havr to move closer to the mainland
[18:47]  June Trefoil: Do you think that LL's aim is to retain estates?
[18:47]  Prokofy Neva: I have 14 sims worth of land, land meters of 14 sims, spread out over 55 sims, i.e. some sims have 4096 m2, others ahve 32,000 etc
[18:47]  Bane Martinek: your new land area doesnt necessarily have totouch
[18:47]  Starbaby Vezina: oh gotcha
[18:47]  Prokofy Neva: Well, I don't need more sims, even free sims, really, that part doesn't make sense to me
[18:47]  Bane Martinek: Imean your proposalhopefully would include a work aroud
[18:47]  Bane Martinek: that point
[18:48]  Prokofy Neva: I tried to think what I want from the Lindens, and what I want is a list of little fixes on the resident developed infohubs or major policies for the mainland that affect everybody
[18:48]  Prokofy Neva: so I don't want this program
[18:48]  Prokofy Neva: and from this thread, you see others like Ciaran are making the same point
[18:48]  Prokofy Neva: they want a list of fixes here and there, a road moved or changed or a park added or something
[18:48]  Prokofy Neva: and then they want policies enforced like traffic fraud and ad cutting
[18:48]  Prokofy Neva: all three major policies they have introduced are not enforced
[18:48]  June Trefoil: Yesm with this program the LL resoucres are shifted toward the estates
[18:48]  Kianeira MacDiarmid: Ad cutting is mostly stopped now thanks to the Arbor group
[18:48]  Bane Martinek: wellwhen has Linden lab given you exactly what you want
[18:49]  Prokofy Neva: there are all kinds of sex clubs still in people's faces that they think should move to Zindra, there are ad farms all over still with $9999, there is traffic fraud still, depsite the Lindens doing a lot in all three areas
[18:49]  Prokofy Neva: no, not really, it is still everywhere; if you have it next to you, it does not feel fixed
[18:49]  Kianeira MacDiarmid: Those ad farms are grandfathered :/
[18:49]  Prokofy Neva: spread out as I am I can see it EVERYWHERE
[18:49]  Prokofy Neva: so it's true that the Lindens are slowly going after each one, it takes fore ver
[18:49]  Prokofy Neva: for example Tee Darwin of the $777 infamy is finally GONE
[18:49]  Kianeira MacDiarmid: i bought all the ad farm on my mainland long ago because i didn't like it there and didn't know about arbor yet
[18:49]  Prokofy Neva: took 3 years to do that
[18:49]  Kianeira MacDiarmid: Oh, going out now. Bye all!
[18:49]  Prokofy Neva: but the GOLD guy with the$9999 is still everywhere
[18:50]  Bane Martinek: wellthere are charter members on the mainland
[18:50]  Prokofy Neva: ouch Kianeir!
[18:50]  June Trefoil: Bye Kia!
[18:50]  Bane Martinek: paying extremely low teir
[18:50]  Prokofy Neva: always hurts
[18:50]  Kianeira MacDiarmid: ye-eah :(
[18:50]  Jane Shelter: bye Kia
[18:50]  Starbaby Vezina: why not just get private sims and basically set your own covenant?
[18:50]  Prokofy Neva: I have done that a few times but generally tried not to
[18:50]  Tammy Nowotny: actually land cutting is stopped even more because it's pointless now that you can't put annoying ad towers on them
[18:50]  Bane Martinek: do you think linden lab is going to forcefully evacuate them just because of a policy?
[18:50]  Bane Martinek: a rule?
[18:50]  Bane Martinek: :)
[18:50]  Bane Martinek: Linde Lab?
[18:50]  Prokofy Neva: well Tammy now you can put the annoying towers on your expensive-ass Nautilus land instead and put the price to $300,000 Lindens on a 1024 : )
[18:51]  Prokofy Neva: Starbaby, i have private sims with my own covenant but I just like the freedom and contiguity of the mainland better
[18:51]  Prokofy Neva: unless you have the resources of a Desmond or an Adam Zaius to buy like 50 sims and string them together, it's hard to make a world
[18:51]  Tammy Nowotny: theer is one left in my backyard: his 16 is up for sale at 10k: I have a 1024 right next it forsale for sale L$6.5k which is not underpriced
[18:51]  Prokofy Neva: instead what you get is an island where you bang into the edges all the time like Truman
[18:52]  Prokofy Neva: well file a ticket to Concierge or support, they will eventually remove it Tammy
[18:52]  Tammy Nowotny: I only ahve Zindra land. LOL. I do have a couople of billboards on my Calris land; just for fun.
[18:52]  Prokofy Neva: slowly but surely I have gotten tickets resolved
[18:52]  Crap Mariner: hrm. we are inside the dam here. this setting could just as easily be on an island.
[18:52]  Tammy Nowotny: the 10k one they told me they synpathized but cdn't do anything
[18:52]  Crap Mariner: but i do see your point
[18:52]  Prokofy Neva: well but I like to fly around and see the land not disappear and reappear as a big tp whoosh and then island with those walls to bang into
[18:53]  Prokofy Neva: but sure, many people don't need geography
[18:53]  Bane Martinek: well there are no walls on high or ultra
[18:53]  Crap Mariner: ja
[18:53]  Crap Mariner: preference. variety.
[18:53]  Prokofy Neva: they have a humper bunker and their friends tp them to o ther humper bunkers and that's enough
[18:53]  Crap Mariner: there is no best.
[18:53]  Prokofy Neva: how do you mean Bane
[18:53]  Bane Martinek: great views
[18:53]  Tammy Nowotny: I find those faek oceans very derpressing
[18:53]  Bane Martinek: i mean under graphics
[18:53]  Bane Martinek: i find them soothing
[18:53]  Prokofy Neva: well I have this new thing now I got from Angela and Dirk Talamasca's business that makes Sim Surrounds
[18:54]  Prokofy Neva: it makes fake mountains for you on your hometsead
[18:54]  Crap Mariner: tobias novi has stuff like that too. cool stuff
[18:54]  Prokofy Neva: and they are really realistic and you can change the scneery
[18:54]  Bane Martinek: with a high end enough graphics card visually you're not in a box
[18:54]  Prokofy Neva: well but you fly into the box, I want not just illusions of visibility I like to fly around or even walk
[18:54]  Prokofy Neva: I guess I'm old school
[18:54]  Prokofy Neva: I have to say, for me, being on the mainland for FIVE LONG YEARS
[18:55]  Bane Martinek: well what about bn lines prokofy?
[18:55]  Bane Martinek: I kow i bounce off those
[18:55]  Prokofy Neva: for the Lindens to have clobbered us with all kinds of awfulness all these years, their supreme and even snarky indifference to ad farms, the Bush Guy, problems like a submarine eating the entire script time on a sim, these were what they inflicted on us for years while their darling script kiddies and other FIC inflicted their "creativity" on the mainland
[18:56]  Prokofy Neva: and then for them to suddenly say after they shit on us, OMG you have shit all over you, you are ugly
[18:56]  Prokofy Neva: that's just --
[18:56]  Prokofy Neva: then to say ok now come into our program to beautiful yourself because we made you ugly all these years with our hippe technocommie policies
[18:56]  Crap Mariner: agrees
[18:56]  Prokofy Neva: maybe they can find newbies with shorter memories to play this game
[18:57]  Prokofy Neva: I've moved from trying to see if I could work with this
[18:57]  Crap Mariner: i wonder if this is just a secret plan to throw blondin to the wolves every week.
[18:57]  Prokofy Neva: to seeing how I can NOT work with it but not have them damage me by eventually coming after my communities anyway
[18:57]  Prokofy Neva: Why do they put junior low-level Lindens on these tasks? These companies always low-ball the community interface, for them community relations are the scut work, and not as glorified as coding so they don't put senior people on it
[18:58]  Crap Mariner: coding takes skill
[18:58]  Bane Martinek: I think blondin held his own pretty well this week. a few griefers aside
[18:58]  Prokofy Neva: Oh, I happened to meet Blue Linden in real life.
[18:58]  Jamais Dubratt: I concur
[18:58]  Aztecha Newbies 6 $250: LEASE EXPIRED: leased by Lonely Fensen located in Columbia (236.137878,184.751633,26.445871) has expired.
[18:58]  Prokofy Neva: He said he was vacationing on the East Coast and I asked if he would meet me in NY when he was there
[18:58]  Prokofy Neva: so I met him the other day
[18:58]  Bane Martinek: And?
[18:58]  Prokofy Neva: and I asked him if they would ever have something like an ombudsman linden
[18:59]  Prokofy Neva: well he talked for a long time about moderating the forums, how hard it is, how it's an unscaleable task
[18:59]  Bane Martinek: and?
[18:59]  Prokofy Neva: how they are trying all these tings
[18:59]  Bane Martinek: DO they moderate the forums?
[18:59]  Prokofy Neva: and how they remove threads to make it safe for newbies or timid people to feel they can talk on them
[18:59]  Prokofy Neva: yes
[18:59]  Bane Martinek: seems to be fullof that cliquey forum cartel outfit
[18:59]  Prokofy Neva: but they aren't uniform in every setting and he acknowledged that
[19:00]  Prokofy Neva: but he seemed open to the concept of a community Linden that actually goes out and takes pulses and feeds back to the Lab, and he does that himself when possible
[19:00]  Prokofy Neva: but see they don't have any one Linden doing that because they think it's not a core function
[19:00]  Bane Martinek: but they are all tourists in second life
[19:00]  Prokofy Neva: they have like Pink Linden now for merchants or Soft Linden for scripters and they think, niches are how to do it and they don't need more
[19:00]  Bane Martinek: Torley fills that fuction doesnt he.
[19:00]  Prokofy Neva: ......
[19:00]  Bane Martinek: "The Player" who made good/
[19:00]  Bane Martinek: who IS the pusle of second life
[19:01]  Prokofy Neva: The thing is each Linden who has office hours does have their coterie of fanboyz or regulars
[19:01]  June Trefoil: how can Blue take the pulse from individuals who are all spread out? Do you mean from the blog forumns?
[19:01]  Prokofy Neva: well Blue himself actually reads those forums
[19:01]  Prokofy Neva: which is amazing in itself I suppose
[19:01]  Tammy Nowotny: that cpopywriter ferelance job sounds a littl;e dubious: they want you to write 5 site reviews per hour for US$9/hr
[19:01]  June Trefoil: Yes, I 've seen that
[19:01]  Prokofy Neva: he also holds office hours and flies around, i guess he feels he has his hand on the pulse as well as any of them
[19:01]  Prokofy Neva: but they should really make it a dedicated job description
[19:01]  Prokofy Neva: the idae that the forums have to be made safe for timid newbies isn't one I suppoes
[19:02]  Prokofy Neva: *support
[19:02]  Bane Martinek: well his office hours is packed
[19:02]  Prokofy Neva: that's because I think it's a fiction
[19:02]  Tammy Nowotny: there is also a ethical issue if the copywriter doesn't reveal him/her.itself as a Linden contractor
[19:02]  Prokofy Neva: I think 2 percent are going to post and you have to let good speech drive out bad and not worry about timid newbies who won't post even if it's a ladies' tea party
[19:02]  Bane Martinek: whenthey ignore the timid new ones
[19:02]  Crap Mariner: 5 site reviews an hour?
[19:02]  Tammy Nowotny: that what people said on the blog
[19:02]  Prokofy Neva: Blue himself has a travel blog but he hasn't kept i t up being put on blog marm duty
[19:02]  Crap Mariner: babbling, incoherent crap
[19:03]  Prokofy Neva: But this is my impression of Lindens that I meet in real life like this, which of course is a select sample of a Linden willilng to meet with me:
[19:03]  Prokofy Neva: they ahve no power
[19:03]  Bane Martinek: well who does?
[19:03]  Prokofy Neva: they are like low-level State Department flunkies sent out to hear your protests
[19:03]  Prokofy Neva: the code cave has the power, the devs, and their culture reins supreme
[19:03]  Prokofy Neva: it is changing, and is being curbed
[19:03]  Bane Martinek: those are the wage slaves like Joppa
[19:04]  Crap Mariner: they are ballistic putty. disposable armor goo on a tank.
[19:04]  Jamais Dubratt: they are not allowed even to discuss ToS and if you ask again they say they will remove you -!
[19:04]  Prokofy Neva: but the fact that you see supreme indifference to content theft, and years of aggressive hippie bullshit on mainland policies *is due to them, to the coders* - that is their culture
[19:04]  Bane Martinek: they need to hire professional coders to rewrite their software from scratch like apple did their os years ago
[19:04]  Bane Martinek: thats what i hear is in the works
[19:04]  Bane Martinek: 2.0
[19:04]  Bane Martinek: insteadof 1.27
[19:04]  Bane Martinek: or 1.29
[19:04]  Prokofy Neva: The thing that Lindens keep saying and which Blue Linden said to me and which he says in his office hour, "Lindens can't scale"
[19:04]  Bane Martinek: or 1.3
[19:05]  Bane Martinek: or 1,5
[19:05]  Bane Martinek: down the line
[19:05]  Prokofy Neva: each time you say "but why can't you do this" they recite like a mantra: that can't scale
[19:05]  June Trefoil: what does that mean, scale?
[19:05]  Prokofy Neva: did I hear or read a rumour they were secretly rewriting SL from scratch
[19:05]  Bane Martinek: i have
[19:05]  Prokofy Neva: they will have a clean boot of SL 3.0 available only as a gold membership
[19:05]  Prokofy Neva: bling-free, chicken-free SL
[19:06]  Bane Martinek: dont you think we need it.
[19:06]  Bane Martinek: do you still read the jira?
[19:06]  Jamais Dubratt: its too expensive already
[19:06]  Prokofy Neva: oh, I think software iterations are a psychosis and a sickness of the mind
[19:06]  Bane Martinek: there needs to be a clean slate
[19:06]  Prokofy Neva: if software engineers had to write software the way they write resolutions at the UN, software would work better because they'd have to finish, and have to deploy in the real world, and live with the real results for a year
[19:06]  Bane Martinek: there is a way to code the features of secod life without the bugs
[19:07]  Bane Martinek: and that is from scratch
[19:07]  June Trefoil: With new bugs LOL
[19:07]  Jamais Dubratt: what happens to old inventory?
[19:07]  Prokofy Neva: well copybot it I guess
[19:07]  Bane Martinek: well code is ultimately ones and zeroes
[19:07]  Prokofy Neva: delete it
[19:08]  Jamais Dubratt: not ideal
[19:08]  Prokofy Neva: well human beings are only carbon so yeah, be reductive sure
[19:08]  Bane Martinek: well everything is what it is
[19:08]  Bane Martinek: a is a
[19:08]  Prokofy Neva: anyway, the only way to fix all the crazy Linden social policies that are so retarded is to enter them and try to wrestle Lindens with them but I don't find my groups have the appetite
[19:08]  Prokofy Neva: I wanted to make sure I wasn't holding them back lol
[19:09]  Prokofy Neva: but someone should try it and fight them on the issue of ban/eject
[19:09]  Quinn Houston: I'm not trying to be rude or upset anyone, but from being a tester/previewer for microsoft I can pretty say as fact, this is always a bug :) no matter what, they get there.. nothing you can do about bugs.
[19:09]  Prokofy Neva: no one running an event should be stuck without ban powers
[19:09]  Quinn Houston: there*
[19:09]  Jamais Dubratt: agreed
[19:09]  Prokofy Neva: well binary thinking affects how they think about bugs however
[19:09]  Prokofy Neva: they tend to refuse to accept that they can't fix them and them suddenly label them "expected behaviour" or "feature requests"
[19:09]  Prokofy Neva: that's what makes the entire proposition unsound and not scientific
[19:09]  Prokofy Neva: it's Lysenkoism there on the JIRA
[19:10]  Prokofy Neva: Hi Vorren
[19:10]  Prokofy Neva: Crap, here you have this great community yourself, why aren't you beating down the Lindens door?
[19:10]  Prokofy Neva: and there was all this discussion of music groups, why did you say the Lindens are allergic to music groups?
[19:10]  Bane Martinek: well part of ther i dea of partnership was for example real time sim crossing support
[19:10]  Vorren Voltaire: Hello...how much did I miss?
[19:10]  Crap Mariner: Because I'd like to keep it that way.
[19:10]  Prokofy Neva: oh I dunno about 30 minutes, i will post the chat log later Vorren
[19:11]  Prokofy Neva: keep what which way?
[19:11]  Bane Martinek: i would imagine a linden would beonhand to handle security if your group were large enough to merit a ccp anyway
[19:11]  Quinn Houston: they can't fix some stuff, I've crashed entire counties phone line in colorado usa when I ran into a "bug". no one appreciated that, but better I did it then someone else... they can reporduce what I did to create it.
[19:11]  Crap Mariner: The Lindens consider music toxic because of the BMI/ASCAP licensing issues. They're always on the verge of a fight with the desperate licensing agencies.
[19:11]  Crap Mariner: covers, unlicensed deejays, blah blah blah.
[19:11]  Prokofy Neva: well but Bane, it's ridiculous when the Lindens have been dealing with some groups for 6 years, and they can't trust them to use ban correctly?!
[19:11]  Jamais Dubratt: their issues are vast
[19:12]  Prokofy Neva: they should give them ban powers and be done with it; if they are abused, the ydiscipline the person, not the horror they imagine
[19:12]  Prokofy Neva: it's a big problem on infohubs because they are all infested with under-the-radar griefers who thrive on annoying you and making it so that anything you do to try to curb them is fuel for them to AR you, that's their game
[19:12]  Bane Martinek: well it flys in the face of openess im sure they would counter
[19:12]  Bane Martinek: they wanttobe inclusive
[19:12]  Prokofy Neva: so ban them and let the Lindens look at their appeals
[19:12]  Vorren Voltaire: couldnt be any worse than what the Lindens themselves do sometimes
[19:12]  June Trefoil: Ban or rez powers - isn't there an opportunity to ask for that if the CPP is suvcessful?
[19:12]  Prokofy Neva: Bane, the Lindens are NOT inclusive
[19:12]  Prokofy Neva: is the Fashion facebook thing inclusive?
[19:13]  Prokofy Neva: is the land baron MOTD inclusive?
[19:13]  Bane Martinek: their partnering might very well include a hyper-responsive goverance reponse
[19:13]  Prokofy Neva: are 16 other FIC programs inclusive lol? of course not
[19:13]  Bane Martinek: I mean the sims Porkofy:)
[19:13]  Bane Martinek: not the projects
[19:13]  Quinn Houston: the more complex sl gets, the more new rules/laws have to come into effect. This is a world wide created world. New things, new rules. I don't want to hang with kids in here but nothing I'm gonna do about it. Its the New Frontier :)
[19:13]  Prokofy Neva: they hobble themselves with fake systems of inclusivity that are piled up on top of their terribly non-inclusive discretionary and arbitrary judgement
[19:13]  Bane Martinek: a king needs his court
[19:13]  Crap Mariner: agreed
[19:13]  Bane Martinek: how i invision the lab
[19:13]  Prokofy Neva: yes Quinn is does have to get more complex
[19:14]  Crap Mariner: it all ends up subjective and their choice. these programs are just whitewash over the true selection process.
[19:14]  Bane Martinek: that isnt going to change
[19:14]  Prokofy Neva: not sure what you mean by "the sims" Bane
[19:14]  Bane Martinek: will you be a courtier or a serf
[19:14]  Bane Martinek: is how you have to view your second life
[19:15]  Bane Martinek: i mean the actual sims the places aremeant to be inclusive meaning anyone is aloowedto teleport or fly in
[19:15]  Prokofy Neva: oh well I found they fudged that
[19:15]  Prokofy Neva: they called for "open groups"
[19:16]  Prokofy Neva: but then Blondin said when challenged that seemingly they could just be "open with an invitation"
[19:16]  Prokofy Neva: I'm probably the only mainland group with open invitations
[19:16]  Crap Mariner: i look at the CPP as a kind of voluntary survey to find out which communities actually exist.
[19:16]  Prokofy Neva: I mean open membership without invitations
[19:16]  Vorren Voltaire: I'm still confused on what they mean by "large community" have they cited any examples?
[19:16]  Bane Martinek: ravenglass
[19:16]  Prokofy Neva: Crap you are so right
[19:16]  Bane Martinek: dont you cahrge a few lindens a week?
[19:16]  Prokofy Neva: they don't have an inventory of mainland groups
[19:16]  Prokofy Neva: last year I thought of trying to make one, but it's work
[19:16]  Prokofy Neva: I have this group Mainlanders and it has a lot of the rental agents in it, it might be doable
[19:17]  Crap Mariner: any that don't respond aren't worth cataloging because they don't care to get "benefits"
[19:17]  Prokofy Neva: but then I thought, well why should I do what the Lindens can do by sending out an email to 80,000 premium account members?
[19:17]  Tammy Nowotny: I wish we had more than 25 grouop slots
[19:17]  Bane Martinek: soe are bypassing sheernumbers with what they call "quality" memebers
[19:17]  Bane Martinek: thouse who generate massive profits in second life
[19:17]  Prokofy Neva: I'm estimating there are about 300-400 Mainland groups that have more than 10 people and that have some kind of activity in them
[19:18]  Prokofy Neva: so I think they need not a policy that only picks out the few excellent warriors of Sparta and trains them in an elite force, but that they ahve the Athens approach of creating conditions for the full society of freedom that itself will produce excellence
[19:18]  Prokofy Neva: they always go for the Spartan approach which is proven historically as brittle and fail-prone
[19:18]  Crap Mariner: i have been trying to figure out how my sister and the jewish community on mainland would benefit and how it would suffer as a result of the CPP. just not enough details to decide what to suggest to beth.
[19:18]  Bane Martinek: for example alfa winger is being courted by numerousupstarts trying to corner the adultmarket
[19:18]  Quinn Houston: Prokofy, reading and typing is hard for me to catch up on, about this sim thing, My thinking is this sim we are in now is called Sutherland, but lately I notice peole referfering to say a 512 as a sim, that is incorret right? :)
[19:18]  Bane Martinek: well ccp market
[19:18]  Prokofy Neva: well 512 is part of the sim
[19:18]  Prokofy Neva: 512 meters out of that sim, a parcel on that sim
[19:19]  Prokofy Neva: but people talk about "my sim" even if they only live on 515 meters
[19:19]  Quinn Houston: thats what I thought too, but noobs are not thinking that
[19:19]  Bane Martinek: dothay?
[19:19]  Prokofy Neva: so let's say they have 400 groups tops, that's my guesstimate flying around and looking at the map and seeing where it has patterns of human activity that shows things other than "ugly spinning tower" or "ad farm" or "my empty mall" but shows like houses in a row, or a public square, or green dots doing something besides botting or camping.
[19:20]  Prokofy Neva: and those places could all be emailed or IM'd with a notecard and asked do you want a road or a park or a free sim or what do you need
[19:20]  Crap Mariner: Do non-American groups use Mainland or private estates typically?
[19:20]  Prokofy Neva: I would have FIRST canvassed all the actual people on the grid then created the policy for them but of course, that's not what LL does
[19:20]  Bane Martinek: 23,000 private estates
[19:21]  Prokofy Neva: well I see Japanese on the mainland, even a guy who made Belarus
[19:21]  Crap Mariner: k
[19:21]  Bane Martinek: around 5500 mainland sims
[19:21]  Prokofy Neva: there are 5,000 mainland sims, of which 4,000 are residents, 1,000 Linden roughly speaking
[19:21]  June Trefoil: There are a few nationalties near my parcel.
[19:21]  Prokofy Neva: so it's 4000 sims you have to canvass, and half are empty or abandoned or for sale or whatever, possibly more
[19:21]  Prokofy Neva: it's not that huge a task but you have to be curious and have to be willing to adjust, and what LL wants now is a means to increase sign-ups and retention
[19:21]  Crap Mariner: my neighborhood is american and canadian. kinda wish we had a few more people across the pond.
[19:22]  Prokofy Neva: I juts continue to remain baffled that they let thees welcome areas go to the dogs, even a part-time Linden who circuit rode them daily could help dispel the culture of impunity
[19:22]  Prokofy Neva: well in my mainland rentals, I have people from all over the world
[19:22]  Crap Mariner: patrols. drive-bys
[19:22]  Vorren Voltaire: hmmm...its starting to sound more and more like a gimmick to bring value back to mature mainland, and thats it really.
[19:22]  Tammy Nowotny: theer are many sims where there are some signs of life but also a lot of dead land--- like Mindulle where I have a small build
[19:22]  Quinn Houston: kinda sounds like my rl neighborhood when you say it like that
[19:22]  Crap Mariner: value, or purpose>
[19:22]  Bane Martinek: vitality Vorren
[19:22]  Prokofy Neva: I have Germans, Spain, Portugese, Polish, Japanese, Korean, Russian, Brazilian, you name it. I find even people from farflung places like Egypt or Kyrgyzstan
[19:22]  Bane Martinek: the idea is to bringvitality tothe mainland
[19:23]  Bane Martinek: afterall , the interesting content has been shunted
[19:23]  Bane Martinek: moved
[19:23]  Crap Mariner: my apologies for poor typing and lack of responsiveness. orange juice, theraflu, and UGH tonight.
[19:23]  Prokofy Neva: I would have to say most of my tenants ar enon-Americans now, I think Americans buy homesteads, it was marketed to the American for whom that very term would resonate
[19:23]  Bane Martinek: and now with The Lawsuit, LL doesnt have to advertize sex and violence
[19:23]  Bane Martinek: people willknow that it is there when they sign up
[19:23]  Prokofy Neva: Bane
[19:23]  Prokofy Neva: here is the thing
[19:23]  Bane Martinek: andage verify speedily
[19:23]  Vorren Voltaire: they should have though of that before they did the poorly planned Adult content exile
[19:24]  Quinn Houston: I don't own alot of land, but the land I do own is on different sims. none of which on an island, that makes them all mainland right?
[19:24]  Prokofy Neva: we have BEEN BRINGING vitality to the mainland WITHOT THEM
[19:24]  Prokofy Neva: they have been IN THE WAY
[19:24]  Prokofy Neva: they cannot BRING vitality to ME I already HAVE IT
[19:24]  Prokofy Neva: they need to put up the servers, curb griefing, and stay out of the way
[19:24]  Bane Martinek: well gather with 300 or so of your closepersonal friends and share it
[19:24]  Prokofy Neva: well I gather with my close personal 1,000 customers and land preserve members, whatever
[19:24]  Bane Martinek: THAT is my takeon what Linden lab is proposing with this new project
[19:25]  Prokofy Neva: and so do 300 other rental agents
[19:25]  Prokofy Neva: and we ALREADY do this and we know something about how this works
[19:25]  Prokofy Neva: the Lindens do not CARE about communities AS THEY EXIST
[19:25]  Prokofy Neva: they want artifically cloned "communities of rich content" like the USS sims
[19:25]  Bane Martinek: wellwhat sort of events do you hold with in this community, this ravenglass
[19:25]  Bane Martinek: oris it merely gatherings at the tier payment box
[19:25]  Prokofy Neva: they want things that are photogenic, like they'd love an airplane or surfing or railroad group
[19:25]  Bane Martinek: or around th old info nut
[19:25]  Prokofy Neva: but the ydon't BOTHER to go talk to the EXISTING rail groups
[19:26]  Bane Martinek: THAT is a brilliant idea by the way
[19:26]  Prokofy Neva: they demand that those groups jump hoops and fit into their silly criteria which are stupid and excessive
[19:26]  Prokofy Neva: there is a rich, detailed, vibrant, highly active railroad community of multiple groups ALREADY
[19:26]  Bane Martinek: and arbitray BUT fluid
[19:26]  Prokofy Neva: they just had a huge rail festival WITH NO LINDENS
[19:26]  Jamais Dubratt: RL calls, nice to chat, bye all
[19:26]  Prokofy Neva: so how can they sit their smugly as Blondin is doing and saying "well, let them fill out our form"
[19:26]  Prokofy Neva: by
[19:27]  Prokofy Neva: I went to some of the rail people, they never even HEARD OF this forum post
[19:27]  Prokofy Neva: why should I be the one out there stumping and flogging a Linden program I don't even like?!
[19:27]  Crap Mariner: I will not jump through hoops. They can come to me.
[19:27]  Prokofy Neva: but tht's what is happening
[19:27]  Prokofy Neva: Blondin just answered my post today saying essentially, ok, how can we spread the word?
[19:27]  Bane Martinek: i mean Linden lab is bringing somethig to the table
[19:27]  Bane Martinek: namely a fe w public spaces
[19:28]  Bane Martinek: allthey want in return is a little genuine traffic
[19:28]  Vorren Voltaire: Ah Blondin...Mr question with a question
[19:28]  Bane Martinek: and a few feel good happy events
[19:28]  Prokofy Neva: to which I can only say well, open up the map and fly around and talk to the green dots, you have made this 3-d interactive virtual world, go in it and talk to people duh
[19:28]  Tammy Nowotny: most people don't read the forums: those ads on the splash screen are just something which scrolls by unsign while they are in the kitchen getting acup of cofefe
[19:28]  Bane Martinek: snapshots for the new showcase
[19:28]  Bane Martinek: good press
[19:28]  Bane Martinek: sign ups and happy customers
[19:28]  Quinn Houston: sl is kinda like its own country forming on its own.
[19:28]  Bane Martinek: and cold cash
[19:28]  Bane Martinek: :)
[19:28]  Prokofy Neva: I think a good percentage of people don't know those MOTDs are clickable or don't get them to click
[19:28]  Prokofy Neva: Bane, what ARE they bringin to the table?
[19:28]  Prokofy Neva: see that's what some of thoes posters in that thread have asked
[19:28]  June Trefoil: I couldn't click on the MOTD for a while.
[19:29]  Prokofy Neva: you tell us to jump through hoops and curb all our activities on your land, but what do we get out of it?
[19:29]  Prokofy Neva: they won't say
[19:29]  Prokofy Neva: I finally got it to click, not sure why
[19:29]  Bane Martinek: that is just it
[19:29]  Vorren Voltaire: wait...really? There arent any clear benefits to this program?
[19:30]  Prokofy Neva: well they ahven't said what they are
[19:30]  Bane Martinek: from his last openhours Blondin seemed open to suggestions
[19:30]  Prokofy Neva: I am speculating that they are the same things as othe programs
[19:30]  Bane Martinek: i mean as in "how linden lab can help"
[19:30]  Prokofy Neva: namely newbie streams such as are sent to Community Gateway and Resident Developed hubs, although those are now at a trickle as the Lindens have siphoned newbie traffic to their own built hubs now made by moles near their own preferred areas of Bay City, etc
[19:30]  Prokofy Neva: then MOTD advertising and blog mention
[19:30]  Prokofy Neva: and stuff like events that they flog
[19:31]  Prokofy Neva: and of course you get these free openspace sims
[19:31]  Prokofy Neva: I have to sort of blink at that
[19:31]  Vorren Voltaire: They are problably waiting for us to tell them what they want, like with the adult content bit
[19:31]  Prokofy Neva: here I pay tier to run 100,000 meters of the SL Public Land preserve. I have a dedicated group of tier-donators like Clubside that pitch in to pay for essentially 50,000 meters, I match the 50,000 meters out of Ravenglass
[19:31]  Bane Martinek: open to suggestions
[19:31]  Prokofy Neva: so we have 37 sites and we put content, homes, recreation, stuff to do, etc. etc. and run newbie orientations
[19:32]  Prokofy Neva: so if the Lindens said, "Can we give you 30 more sims?" what would i say?
[19:32]  Prokofy Neva: "No thanks, I can't ban people so it's worthless"
[19:32]  Prokofy Neva: "No thanks, I can't even plant a Linden tree so it's worthless"
[19:33]  Bane Martinek: hopefully they wont pick moles to build these places :)
[19:33]  Prokofy Neva: 30 more sims for me to have to fly around and police, with no ban and no plant powers? why? I'd rather run my own thing in which people volunteer and they can put the content they want without LL looking over their shoulder
[19:33]  Prokofy Neva: they are hiring up on moles tho
[19:33]  Prokofy Neva: of course they will do that
[19:33]  Prokofy Neva: moles do the building, they aren't going to continue the past experiments of having even very good residents do builds
[19:33]  Prokofy Neva: they incite fear of the lawsuit precedent sent by the Ultima Online volunteers some years agop
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: if you could get a menu of perks from LL Bane, what would yo uask for?
[19:34]  Bane Martinek: ban power for one
[19:34]  Bane Martinek: im in total agreement with you there
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: that is NOT on the table
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: Blondin has said NO to that
[19:34]  Bane Martinek: i'd like the sims
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: so that's a deal braeker
[19:35]  Bane Martinek: theland
[19:35]  Bane Martinek: of course
[19:35]  Bane Martinek: a real ear
[19:35]  Prokofy Neva: a real ear
[19:35]  Bane Martinek: not some concierge run around
[19:35]  Quinn Houston: RL family meeting, gotta go, family is far away, thats how sl works for me :) take care !
[19:35]  Prokofy Neva: that's what people want more than anything else: a real ear
[19:35]  Prokofy Neva: kk Quin see you!
[19:35]  Bane Martinek: wheni wantedn to speak with the lab
[19:35]  Zotarah Shepherd: unlimited terraforming
[19:35]  Vorren Voltaire: I actually think thats a good call. It should be restricted to people that can get fired for bad choices or making it personal.
[19:35]  Bane Martinek: i believe that would be the greatest advantage of any partnership
[19:35]  Prokofy Neva: Zotarah a problem with that in a group can be griefing but yes, it's good to have
[19:36]  June Trefoil: I thought that the BLake Sea groupo had rez pwers , i'm pretty sure they have the ear.
[19:36]  Prokofy Neva: well Bane, given that they wilL NOT give you ban powers why are you flogging this program?
[19:36]  Prokofy Neva: they have rez powers, and they have eject/freeze but not ban
[19:36]  Prokofy Neva: and they have like 16 caveat sonthe use of eject
[19:36]  Prokofy Neva: so you can see that some griefers will just make sport with that
[19:36]  Prokofy Neva: whatever you want to say about MarkTwain, you can say he has the ear of Linden Lab.
[19:37]  Bane Martinek: well its not something i'd put my heart and soul into
[19:37]  Prokofy Neva: It may be an ear he has sliced off with a sword, but he has the ear
[19:37]  Vorren Voltaire: so we arent talking Range Banning, we are talking just regular Land Tools banning?
[19:37]  Bane Martinek: i'd view it as a wild west sort of sand box atbest
[19:37]  Prokofy Neva: lan dtools freeze only
[19:37]  Bane Martinek: and hoipefully i'd get past the blondens to some real lindens
[19:37]  Prokofy Neva: well Bane see you are in illusion
[19:38]  Prokofy Neva: that's what everyone thinks that waiting behind Blondin is "the real Lindens"
[19:38]  Tammy Nowotny: I thin l the Lindens have different levels of God Powers: they're suppsoed to use the lowest level they need to do their job.
[19:38]  Prokofy Neva: but...there aren't any real Lidnens behind Blondin that wantyou
[19:38]  Bane Martinek: well i dont want them
[19:38]  Prokofy Neva: if you buy 100 sims even, they don't want you
[19:38]  Tammy Nowotny: the Maonalnd is also a huge estate and I am sure the regular estate tools get used as well
[19:38]  Prokofy Neva: if you are IBM even, they don't want you
[19:38]  Bane Martinek: naturally i would like to use them for my own ends
[19:38]  Vorren Voltaire: Orange.
[19:38]  Prokofy Neva: these are people who are playing their own game with their own money put in, they have no incentive to want you
[19:38]  Prokofy Neva: why did Orange really leave>?
[19:38]  Bane Martinek: wellthere is always blue mars
[19:38]  Bane Martinek: the spectre of competition
[19:38]  Prokofy Neva: that's getting mixed reviews
[19:39]  Crap Mariner: Prokofy - I prefer to ask Why didn't orange stay if the platform is going to be as wonderful as their white paper suggests
[19:39]  Bane Martinek: oh i beta test it its in its infacny
[19:39]  June Trefoil: Orange was gong to put out a report, I ahven't seen it yet.
[19:39]  Prokofy Neva: yes Crap, you have to wonder
[19:39]  Crap Mariner: "It's a great place. Good for businesses. See ya!" POOF
[19:39]  Prokofy Neva: if they are the best case for use of SL and understanding of "the community," well, why is this "best case" leaving this fabulous thing they understood so well lol?
[19:39]  Prokofy Neva: exactly
[19:40]  Vorren Voltaire: What I know is just hearsay,so I wont repeat it, but its really just the usual problems with LL
[19:40]  Crap Mariner: I got blasted in email and IMs for saying that.
[19:40]  Prokofy Neva: well as I just said:
[19:40]  Prokofy Neva: [19:38] Prokofy Neva: these are people who are playing their own game with their own money put in, they have no incentive to want you
[19:40]  Crap Mariner: which makes me think i'm right.
[19:40]  Prokofy Neva: you were blasted? but that is so true, Crap!
[19:40]  Prokofy Neva: duh!
[19:40]  Prokofy Neva: I mean Orange was great and did all these things but their exit was not so graceful
[19:41]  Prokofy Neva: at least they didn't say "and now we're going to copy all your stuff with our new builderbot so piss on your" the way Rezzable did
[19:41]  Prokofy Neva: Bane, what would this "real ear" do?
[19:41]  Prokofy Neva: I am now trying to draw up "real ear" qualifications
[19:41]  Prokofy Neva: that is, I had a blog I was drafting
[19:42]  Prokofy Neva: "What would make a good Linden?"
[19:42]  Bane Martinek: i mean really get soething done
[19:42]  Bane Martinek: hell answer a straight question
[19:42]  Tammy Nowotny: a godo Linden sounds almost like an oxymoron
[19:42]  Prokofy Neva: I think job one is they must come clean on their past resident status, bar none, no excuses
[19:42]  Bane Martinek: you cant plan anything without any real information
[19:42]  Bane Martinek: a heads up wouldnthurt from time to time either
[19:42]  Prokofy Neva: yes Bane they could have said what the perks might be, they instead vaguely point to MTW's USS thing
[19:43]  Prokofy Neva: Don't you think they have gotten better at the heads up?
[19:43]  Bane Martinek: i have no clue what they are bringing to the table with their idea of a partnership other than some pblic spaces and sim crossing support lol
[19:43]  Prokofy Neva: I usually come home from work Fridays wincing as I open up secondlife.com knowing that at 6:45 pm juts as a Linden is leaving for home they will post some AWFUL new thing no one is expecting lol
[19:43]  Prokofy Neva: newbie sttreams Bane
[19:43]  Prokofy Neva: look at their existing programs
[19:44]  Prokofy Neva: look at Community Gateways, the API registration, the localization sims, the German community hybrid group etc etc
[19:44]  Bane Martinek: that they expect YOu to interest enough to log in a month from now
[19:44]  Prokofy Neva: all of those amount to one thing: "We will deliver our hapless new customers to your door, try not to fuck up with them the way we do on our regular welcome areas"
[19:44]  Prokofy Neva: HOWever
[19:44]  Prokofy Neva: their much-bruited api reg and cg programs DID NOT PRODUCE BETTER RETENTION
[19:44]  Prokofy Neva: and that's becaues their initial round of friends were lowballing it and not putting people on the sims or didn't really have live people to put on their fabulous expenso builds
[19:45]  Prokofy Neva: and they began to think, OMG retention isn't about gateways
[19:45]  Vorren Voltaire: well...in all fairness, I havent seen many CG's that did anything revolutionary
[19:45]  Bane Martinek: retention is their number one problem
[19:45]  Zotarah Shepherd: Virtual Abilities and ISTE have had better with Reg APIs I hear.
[19:45]  Bane Martinek: zindra doesnt help
[19:45]  Prokofy Neva: so that suggests to me, although I don't have their latest round of figures on retention that I used to get leaked, is that they have moved to the community partnerships in desperation for a retention fix
[19:45]  Crap Mariner: metanomics. t linden.
[19:45]  Prokofy Neva: they now have put this sort of annoying kiosk on all the infohubs
[19:46]  Vorren Voltaire: Zindra actually turned out okay, but it was the constant resident pushing that made it that way
[19:46]  Prokofy Neva: Looking for Something More Adult?
[19:46]  Crap Mariner: the indicators of people wh ostay are if they make more than 1 friend and buy something
[19:46]  Tammy Nowotny: well, it is time for me to go. Ty for an interesting discusion
[19:46]  Bane Martinek: forget zindra
[19:46]  Crap Mariner: CPP obviously gides people to groups/cults who will keep people in
[19:46]  Tammy Nowotny: *poof*
[19:46]  Bane Martinek: what about 1.23
[19:46]  Prokofy Neva: which is annoying if you are running a PG sim by their rules, they are advetising to get customers to leave your PG offering and go to their Zindra offering when they don't realize they need to get verified which they won't do
[19:46]  Bane Martinek: not being mandatory
[19:46]  Prokofy Neva: I'm wondering if Gor will apply
[19:46]  Prokofy Neva: probalby not
[19:46]  Bane Martinek: all the little ways to hide sex and violence
[19:47]  Prokofy Neva: thakns for coming Tammy
[19:47]  Bane Martinek: just waht every free account noob is looking for
[19:47]  Bane Martinek: gor doesntneed them
[19:47]  Prokofy Neva: right, and they don't need the bad publicity from Gor
[19:47]  Vorren Voltaire: great way to get the NPIOF's to get payment info.
[19:47]  Bane Martinek: they are already a vital community intheir own way
[19:47]  Prokofy Neva: what theLindens need is surfers or railroad
[19:47]  Prokofy Neva: I'm willing to meet them half way on this with the Power Walkers of Maryport as I said
[19:47]  June Trefoil: Thanks for the discussion, all!
[19:47]  Prokofy Neva: we will powerwalk through 60 sims
[19:48]  Prokofy Neva: thanks for coming June
[19:48]  Bane Martinek: the surfers are making headway
[19:48]  red Balloon: someone rang the bell in Baileya
[19:48]  Prokofy Neva: well surfing seems cool, the peole are organized, they need their rentals to fill up, it's a win for everybody
[19:48]  Prokofy Neva: so that will be what they get I guess, surfers
[19:48]  red Balloon: someone rang the bell in Baileya
[19:49]  Bane Martinek: they might get some adult community
[19:49]  Prokofy Neva: Bane, again, back to this "real ear" concept
[19:49]  Bane Martinek: gor comes to mind as a first choice
[19:49]  Prokofy Neva: what about the Lindens now is not an ear, in fact?
[19:49]  Bane Martinek: well
[19:49]  Bane Martinek: other than you
[19:49]  Vorren Voltaire: I doubt it, Bane. The adult community hardly acts adult
[19:49]  Prokofy Neva: Isn't Blondin Linden coming on the forums finally when I reproach him for trying to socially engineer me and not answer me, and answering me, isnt' than an ear?
[19:49]  Bane Martinek: howmany of us can meet a real linden flying nto town
[19:49]  Bane Martinek: blondin is a tourist
[19:49]  Prokofy Neva: well that's something I've done about twice in my life being on here 5 years
[19:49]  Prokofy Neva: they don't come to New York
[19:50]  Prokofy Neva: these are California geek people
[19:50]  Vorren Voltaire: and is as uninformed and fragmented as the RP environments
[19:50]  Bane Martinek: left coastists lol
[19:50]  Prokofy Neva: I've only been able to see them at like the virtua lworlds expo and usually they are surrounded by throngs of admirers, etc
[19:50]  Bane Martinek: i mean evil phil linden
[19:50]  Bane Martinek: i mean EVEN phil doesnt qualify as a real ear inthe lab
[19:50]  Prokofy Neva: I think if you just ask the Lindens to meet you, they will, people have even just gone to San Francisco and gotten an appointment
[19:51]  Prokofy Neva: the thing is, you have to wonder where the real power is
[19:51]  Prokofy Neva: and I dont' think it's M
[19:51]  Bane Martinek: me either
[19:51]  Bane Martinek: i think he stutters to much to be taken seriously
[19:51]  Prokofy Neva: I continue to think the real power is Mitch Kapor becuase he does the LEAST talking and interfacing
[19:51]  Bane Martinek: i once had a sense
[19:51]  Crap Mariner: the investors have the true power
[19:51]  Prokofy Neva: well Mitch has his own money, and also Jeff Bezos, but Jeff is p robably not so hands on
[19:51]  Prokofy Neva: Mitch probably tunes in to reprimand them with a few big ideas now and then
[19:51]  Bane Martinek: that robin harper had a brain in her head and was making intelligible sounds
[19:52]  Vorren Voltaire: I dont think there is power. I think they suffer from a real leadership deficit and are just stumbling through this
[19:52]  Bane Martinek: intelligle scratches on paper
[19:52]  Prokofy Neva: like he probably says "why isn't Havoc working" or "retain more sign-ups"
[19:52]  Bane Martinek: spelling the words right in posts lol
[19:52]  Prokofy Neva: yes Bane but intelligent people LEAVE the lab they don't RUN it
[19:52]  LaPiscean Liberty: oppps
[19:52]  Bane Martinek: my take too
[19:52]  LaPiscean Liberty: thats my cue
[19:52]  LaPiscean Liberty: lol
[19:52]  LaPiscean Liberty: thanks guys
[19:52]  Bane Martinek: yet they are profitable
[19:52]  Prokofy Neva: You have to admire Pink Linden for being very firm and taking a lot of shit and trying to deal with all those fashion divas
[19:53]  Prokofy Neva: however her concept of the FICbook is just not workable and it doesn't even need me to say that anymore
[19:53]  Bane Martinek: a realear to me would be some one like you say that doesnt exsist
[19:53]  Prokofy Neva: I can retire
[19:53]  Bane Martinek: a linden behind blondin interested in me
[19:53]  Prokofy Neva: well but Bane, realistically, they are ears
[19:53]  Prokofy Neva: all ears
[19:53]  Bane Martinek: my goals
[19:53]  Bane Martinek: my interests
[19:53]  Prokofy Neva: I mean, if I were to compare them to the missions at the UN, they are more ears than your standard mission to the UN
[19:53]  Prokofy Neva: they aren't the ears of your elected congressman which is more of an ear, or the ear of your boss or whatever, but they are ears
[19:53]  Prokofy Neva: they just aren't ears that want to do what you want to do
[19:54]  You decline !!!Maternidade Angels    Div: Bruna Poggel from Bruna Poggel.
[19:54]  Bane Martinek: thats for certain
[19:54]  Prokofy Neva: you're the one who has just been telling me for an hour I should work with them
[19:54]  Prokofy Neva: but when I ask you what your bottom line demand is
[19:54]  Prokofy Neva: you say "ban powers"
[19:54]  Bane Martinek: they are like people in the car beside u with the windows rolled up
[19:54]  Bane Martinek: sometimes they hear u
[19:54]  Prokofy Neva: and I say "right, and they aren't giving that, which is why I criticize them"
[19:54]  Bane Martinek: sometims they have the radio up
[19:55]  Bane Martinek: sometimes they speed away
[19:55]  Bane Martinek: sometimes they stop and rolldown the window
[19:55]  Prokofy Neva: yes that's all true
[19:55]  Prokofy Neva: but the problem with the Lindens is that they have a thing they want to do with this world on their own which is not our thing
[19:55]  Prokofy Neva: now how to resolve that conflict?
[19:55]  Prokofy Neva: they build Chinatown, but people want to play Tringo
[19:55]  Bane Martinek: thier projects like that fail
[19:55]  Prokofy Neva: they flog Svarga to gawk at but people want their own chickens and farms
[19:56]  Bane Martinek: then they try something else
[19:56]  Vorren Voltaire: I dont think they are any of that. I think they are a small company with a great product that is constantly evolving that noone really has any idea what to really do with. They are pushing all sorts of different areas, but still really just testing and grasping at ideas. and all these people are trying to help..in their own very different ways
[19:56]  Bane Martinek: they are scrabling not to be godaddy or just host lol
[19:56]  Bane Martinek: get outof the server farming business
[19:56]  Prokofy Neva: Did you read the post from that IMVU guy?
[19:56]  Bane Martinek: so they have their own dreams own goals
[19:56]  Prokofy Neva: he was basically saying how they had to learn to listen to what their customers actually wanted to do
[19:56]  Prokofy Neva: they had one idea they wanted to push and nobody was biting and finally they had to change
[19:56]  Prokofy Neva: but Lindens do not feel that need to change
[19:57]  Prokofy Neva: they want the disruptive technology to disrupt us, not themeslves
[19:57]  Prokofy Neva: Philip still sees the need for change to come from US not HIM
[19:57]  Prokofy Neva: he says "you won't like the changes coming, don't get used to your prospector's cabin as New York City is going up"
[19:57]  Bane Martinek: he's lucky anybody is even commited to this anymore
[19:58]  Bane Martinek: and if new york is cominghow lng willit last
[19:58]  Prokofy Neva: it's hard to keep justifying
[19:58]  Prokofy Neva: I have no idea what he means by that
[19:58]  Prokofy Neva: there aren't any prospector's cabins
[19:58]  Prokofy Neva: there already is New York
[19:58]  Prokofy Neva: I have no idea what he means
[19:58]  Prokofy Neva: Fly around out there
[19:58]  Bane Martinek: well they seem like tourists to me
[19:58]  Bane Martinek: the visit secondlife
[19:59]  Bane Martinek: have to forcesome of them to come at all
[19:59]  Bane Martinek: many have to bepaid tologon at all
[19:59]  Prokofy Neva: but Bane, you have to look at where they were years ago -- now a lot of them have office hours and they sit and suffer in those office hours from hell week after week
[19:59]  Bane Martinek: theyhave different ideasabout this place
[19:59]  Prokofy Neva: they suffer through forums they hate
[19:59]  Prokofy Neva: they get nowhere from doing this from their perspective
[20:00]  Vorren Voltaire: content creators and SL businesses. I've always belived that this is the wild west phase of virtual worlds. You can make a fortune with nothing but a pan, a pickaxe and willpower, but its not going to last
[20:00]  Bane Martinek: by design
[20:00]  Prokofy Neva: Vorren you may be right that they are still poking around to see what works
[20:00]  Bane Martinek: they get no where by design
[20:00]  Prokofy Neva: they keep saying defensively that they make a profit
[20:00]  Zotarah Shepherd: Bye folks
[20:00]  Prokofy Neva: but they make a profit on something that can't scale
[20:00]  Prokofy Neva: land that they can't put concurrency on fast enough
[20:00]  Bane Martinek: linden lab profits
[20:01]  Bane Martinek: but its like smoke and mirrors
[20:01]  Bane Martinek: how long can they last
[20:01]  Bane Martinek: when you cant have more than 50 peoplein the same place comfortably
[20:02]  Bane Martinek: when every friday is a new form or performance nightmare for most
[20:02]  Prokofy Neva: well what are you going to do with more than 50 people
[20:02]  Prokofy Neva: that part doens't bother me
[20:02]  Vorren Voltaire: Hopefully they can make it until they have a solid idea of what works in the long run...at least I hope so. I rather like the environment and it makes me enought money to pay my rent and my bartab
[20:02]  Bane Martinek: when they add windlight which makes even high end users' sl's miserable half the time
[20:02]  Prokofy Neva: if I need a stadium, I go to Yankee Stadium or Madison Square Gardens not Second Life
[20:02]  Prokofy Neva: well Windlight is an example of dev-driven insanity that comes from people putting their own money in their own game without having to worry about customers
[20:03]  Prokofy Neva: these is a start-up with VC money
[20:03]  Bane Martinek: well who is windlight for
[20:03]  Prokofy Neva: that culture is notoriously vain, insecurity, and arrogant and could care less about customes as they are zealots about their big idea
[20:03]  Bane Martinek: the vast majority of computer owners have integrated INTEL grpahics chipsets
[20:03]  Prokofy Neva: it's for Doug Linden to be able to piss on us and say our computers are in kindergarten
[20:03]  Bane Martinek: they are lucky to play sl on low
[20:04]  Bane Martinek: anyonewith a real high end graphics card a 9 series nvidia or better isnt officially supported
[20:04]  Prokofy Neva: well the chain stores are just starting to have computers available with graphic cards that can play SL
[20:04]  Prokofy Neva: now if they would just let that stabilize and not ruin it again that would be great
[20:04]  Vorren Voltaire: but so far...its the only game in town, and enought people can run SL and understand it to make it work
[20:04]  Prokofy Neva: but...they ahve other reasons why they nee dto artifically keep numbers low
[20:05]  Prokofy Neva: they cannot pile more than 100,000 o nthese servers at one time
[20:05]  Bane Martinek: why
[20:05]  Bane Martinek: now that is the first time ive heard that?
[20:05]  Bane Martinek: oh
[20:05]  Prokofy Neva: they talk about reaching 100,000 concurrency this year as a goal
[20:05]  Prokofy Neva: but look at what happens to SL once it gets up at 85,000 it creaks and splits at the seams
[20:05]  Bane Martinek: its slipped some i remeber80,000
[20:05]  Vorren Voltaire: No kidding. They really have to cater to the walmart POS PC crowd. One of the reasons Blue Mars is going to fail.
[20:06]  Bane Martinek: i havent seen over 60000 generally in a while
[20:06]  Bane Martinek: 70,000 maybe
[20:06]  Prokofy Neva: it slips because people dont come on when they can't teleport, shop or even edit or type in the lag or the borks
[20:06]  Prokofy Neva: sign-ups are increased
[20:06]  Bane Martinek: oh true enough
[20:06]  Prokofy Neva: so I hope they can get the concurrency better
[20:06]  Bane Martinek: 1.23 has its fair share of unkown fps tankings
[20:07]  Prokofy Neva: why is this sim runing at 53 percent of script perfromance
[20:07]  Prokofy Neva: this is the sion script that they are trying to get the Lindens to put in the client'
[20:08]  Prokofy Neva: my Lee Linden socialist FPS is showing 99 TD and 45 FPS
[20:08]  Prokofy Neva: so why the lag?
[20:08]  Bane Martinek: i have no understang of the whole chicken fad
[20:08]  Bane Martinek: isntthat passing
[20:08]  Prokofy Neva: my lag-ometer is green
[20:08]  Prokofy Neva: so why the lag
[20:08]  Prokofy Neva: and this device shows sub-par performance on script execution time
[20:08]  Prokofy Neva: the sims use a function that forces scripts to execute slower in order to maintain the cap of 99 and 45
[20:08]  Prokofy Neva: they didn't use to do it that way
[20:08]  Vorren Voltaire: the lag o meter is always green. I could be stumbling into walls and it will just go yellow for my client
[20:08]  Bane Martinek: my fpsare 6.9
[20:09]  Bane Martinek: im on high
[20:09]  Prokofy Neva: I have 4928 on this sim, once you have more than 2500 scripts on a sim, doesn't matter what kind, performance suffers
[20:09]  Prokofy Neva: so there must be chickens or pets or something on this sim
[20:09]  Bane Martinek: i canusually play on ultra for days
[20:09]  Bane Martinek: with fps inthe 30's and 40's
[20:09]  Bane Martinek: but just sittinhere 6.9
[20:10]  Prokofy Neva: well the scripts on this sim are lagging it but where/how? I don't have the same menu I have on a homestead to see that
[20:10]  Prokofy Neva: they dont have that for mainland because they have this idea that if you see someone else's content and their lag you will bang on them and they refuse to let people see that
[20:10]  Prokofy Neva: anyway I have to go back to work
[20:10]  Bane Martinek: oh i didnt know that
[20:10]  Prokofy Neva: thanks for coming

Comments

[scottlo Scorbal]

Regarding Obama and the Nobel Peace Prize, Dishliquid provides one of the tightest rejoinders to date on the Twitters:

http://twitter.com/Dishliquid/status/4759288769