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the heck with the republic!


First time in History?! lol

Youd think gamerz expert raph would have worked on a ROMAN EMPIRE FALLING game by now...

its not like there havent been a dozen made for the PC.;)

seriously, these gamerifycators are just stoopid.

and i like entertianment making and fun stuff..lol

Prokofy Neva

Creep factor is high there. Raph knows this stuff very well. Now they may turn him to evil!

Ugh -- gamification!

And note -- he mentions elections LOL

Amanda Dallin

Much of what Raph says hasn't been done in games has been done in SL just not by professionals like him.

"Koster also said he was surprised that not many social game makers have introduced racing mechanics in their games."

There are sailing races all the time. I host a battleship race every Wednesday night. I'm sure you can find horse, car, and aircraft races pretty much everyday somewhere in SL.

"Tournaments are yet another under-utilized mechanic."

Again these are not uncommon in SL. The pirate/navy sailing community has them often, both sailing and sword tournaments. I've see them held by Medieval Role players with jousting. I'm sure there are lots of communities in SL using tournaments.

Everything he mentions is being done by normal people inSL.

Oz Linden

Since you've mentioned it a few times... switching off the vote feature in the Jira does not destroy any data - the record of previously cast votes will still be in the database, and if we decide that we want to see it, we'll be able to do so.

cube inada

hes only commenting on the "social games" ala farmville, mafia wars, facebook games etc.

We dont have to look to ROME for nationalized "games".... LOTTO and its carded versions have been legal and tax makers for the US and its states for decades.

games are games.. from INCA/MAYAN? death matches...to gladiators..

we pay folks to hit each other, and drive at 200 mph as well...

normal people play games. and make things to entertain themselves....

of course a culture based on the fantasy of games, and the additive nature of "pleasure" first, sustanance and justice --later.. is the issue.

between 24/7 mobile tech and the fallicy of games as "greatly" of value, plus the abiltiy to monetize them via technology down to the nanocent and nanosecond... we should find it creepy.

cube inada


as this relates to the "cartoon" issues in previous posts...

"silly" 1980 videos on work place ethics-- either fun like John Cleeses works, or droll like most, at least used "human" actions and mechanics to tell "morale stories"....

gaming-- using mechanics of buzzers/ levers/ bells/ and timers...plus of course flash/or soon 3d animations...

one has to wonder what the affect really will be on the "workers"..

theyve been treated like dumb cogs with much of this type of "corporate" media for 60 years...

it just seems that "ethics" arent goint to be found in "games" offered by a yahoo gamerz tech dept. when most of the script kiddies at yahoo already came from ethic free HS or college- buy a paper on the web" methodologies that used the same tech gaming techniques....

even voting is just a game...right?

JIRA Cube3

Prokofy Neva

You're awful, Oz, and really, you're what gives the opensource movement -- and at times Linden Lab, by extension -- its reputation for thuggishness.

Linden Lab, in its official blog post signed by Amanda, which talked about the deprecation of the vote in passing, while mentioning lots of other things, didn't specify anything about when or how. It didn't say whether the votes would remain in view; it didn't say whether the data would be kept stored.

And it is eminently reasonable to ask questions about that, because of the history of the Feature Voting System which was before your time, which was first "optimized" with extreme prejudice by the BDSM rape roleplay thug Angel Fluffy, with Linden consent, and then completely retired from view suddenly one day by Torley, so that it could no longer be accessed, i.e. the way old forums can be.

We can't be sure it was saved; we hope so. Nothing was ever said about it.

So stop trying to imply that I'm somehow misrepresenting your position. Linden Lab didn't state what your plans were with this data whatsoever. And your informal post here on my blog isn't an assurance either, quite frankly.

In fact, it only points up again what a brutal thug you are. You slyly indicate that "and if we decide that we want to see it, we'll be able to do so" without indicating what the public will see and implying that when the public submits content, that you become sole proprietor of its use.

I don't *care* if you think that because you're a privately-held company with an unconscionable TOS that you think you get to do that. You lot need to acquire a sense of public accountability if you expect to win the public trust. Newspapers learned this a 100 years ago, that if they wanted to make money AND keep the public trust and keep the public buying those papers, they'd have to be accountable holders of the public trust. You coders haven't been paper-trained yet.

This is a really, really bad precedent for online voting systems and points up what I mean about how the ethics-free coders are the first problem in any voting system online.

Today, only a virtual world. Tomorrow, our whole country. And if you think that's absurd, think again at how fast these ethics-free cultures spread and cause things like the destruction of the music and media business and WikiLeaks.

The culture of "no no" and the culture of "let's get rid of voting entirely" is being spread deliberately, consciously and thugglishly by this act, and you know it, and I know it, and that's why you're doing it.

People who think that at any time, they can take the whole voting system itself and show it or not show it, and ground that thuggery in the basis of their ownership of the publicly accessible platform, are to be eminently distrusted and fiercely opposed.



read Q is leaving...
View 2.0 ? me thinks its over.

my gut for those wise enough to listen and realize why i post here.

SL is entering the Amiga Phase very soon now. Grok it.

The Cult leader is giving seats in a coffee shop for code...and the search for a finalized deal for old code assets mus be manic.

Amiga fans still exist, but they are like Quakers....

BTW- for the last 60 days I made "nothing" in profits in SL.

Cinder Roxley

Yep, Q's last day is friday. Esbee has already left. Now it seems those who are left are Oz and the ukranian ProductEngine folks.

Prokofy Neva

Q is leaving??? That's awful. He's something of a Renaissance man and a decent fellow. Yes, he's been in charge of the Scrum cult, but he seems fairly reasonable. Well, that's not a good sign.

I'm not sure what "Amiga" means. Is that like "Omega" only with friends? When the friends who put their money in decide to pick up their ball and jacks and go home, leaving the rest holding a very big bag? Or?

Oz and the Ukrainian ProductEngine Folks? That sounds like some sort of really twisted third-rate East European rock band.


kinda like Omega--lol but only in the "end of days" ways..lol

no. The "AMIGA" was a very early PC home computer. It had a NTSC video output that allowed "hobbiest graphic artists" to go to hollywood and make Speilberg movies..:)

it had/ has a cult following for decades... and thats my real meaning.. like quakers, amiga fans today are fare between and kinda "mass" irrelevant" by design....
but the cult still hangs on.

this is the phase SL will enter.. it will either be "headed" direct by LL--but i think thats doubtful-- since itll be sold off --- but mainly i think the OS sims folks will inherit the cult members.. and all keep local fan clubs for "sims" and prims" alive....

while all the pundit/sherpas will move on back to flash...unity.

which is all what i said would happen 5 years ago anyway.--unless---folks wanted to "really" build a set of tools for human virtuality to be fair and sustainable as an enterprise..

i wanted 1939... SL pundits/sherps wanted 1969.. they got what they asked for.

OZ...lol btw- that was the name of one fo the firstborn- and to die- web3d companies in 1995...dutch? cant remember

they did have a rock band..:) no shit. and an office in SOMA...for a year or so.. probalby right next to LL offices 5 years later.;)

Prokofy Neva

Cinder, first I saw you sign the petition, then you took off your name? Is there something you re-thought? Or am I hallucinating?

The Twitter creeps are agitating against this petition, saying that no one should sign it "because of my reputation". Sigh. I don't have a bad reputation. That is, except for a haters who fit on a VW bus lol. I haven't done anything wrong; I've always upheld the rule of law in SL.

A curious argument being used against this by the chubby Internet hater Eli Schlegel is that I've called on people outside of the SL membership to sign it.


This supposedly "invalidates voting" (i.e. you can't define the constituency or citizenship of the country -- a common geek reason for "let's not have voting"). But...that's retarded. Because this is a principle about the whole Internet. Every user is a member of this "country" which needs to affirm online voting in communities. It's a matter of principle. Of course, people like Shlegel aren't burdened by things like principles.

That dreadful Steam Bunje is agitating for deliberative socialist democracy, you know, where you jabber and don't vote because a few cadres decide everything for you.

Just because one person like me puts up a straw poll, essentially, to affirm a principle, doesn't mean that it is a "bid to take power over the Internet" (those removing voting are doing that, and distracting from that fact!), nor does it mean that it is somehow claiming representation (these are straw-men arguments). It's important to send a message to the management.

Amanda Dallin

Prok is taking over the internet with a poll? I looked at that link and remembered why I hate Twitter. How inane can a person get? Alas, I think I now know.

Prokofy Neva

? Since you signed the petition, why are you bitching?

I've had polls on here for years.

What is "inane" about linking to polls and petitions? Absolutely nothing. It's a good cause. You're being an ass.

I have no idea what you "now know".

Amanda Dallin

Nothing is inane about polls and petitions. I was referring to the Twitter link and the comments there. What does your poll have to do with Twitter? The context of the inane comment was the Twitter link not anything to do with your petition.

Ann Otoole InSL

People are finally beginning to get pissed off over this bullshit. Let the community activism begin in earnest.



Just an FYI, I was saying that reputation plays a big part in how people feel about an issue and how they act on it.

Your saying as much yourself in certain contexts.

So in all fairness I was speaking in your favour that names should be removed from "first draft submittals" of ideas and addons to the second life service to preserve a fair and balanced view of an issue and so it's not subverted by a good or bad reputation, bad ideas can be implemented due to someones good reputation it's happened before and it will happen again to the detriment of the service and it's residents who then have to suffer with it, and so can a bad reputation cause a good issue to be ignored and not fixed to the detriment of the service.

Names should only be re-viewable when an acceptable consensus is reached and assigned to a Linden for implementation.

We're all aware you've been banned on these systems before for arguing your case and this has decimated your reputation in a social context, and I thought it would be a fair solution to help you have an equal chance of pushing ideas you believe in, Jiras should be as clean as possible with out politics and reputation coming into play, and an argument should stand on it's own.

And as I don't follow what happens after I say something very often, I'm not aware that others are using this as an argument to say people should not vote on your Jira.

I can't control how others perceive 140 character's of text, neither can I control how others turn and twist the words I tweet into attacking you.

The only power I have is to not tweet, and unfortunately I won't stop tweeting and neither blocking me or ignoring my free speech will solve the underpinning issues you perceive with the second life service.

I don't ignore yours how ever upset and refocused you are on a specific issue I don't agree with, and tweeting and talking issues out might be the last way we have to resolve and find solutions, so burning every bridge you have only causes arguments to become one sided and that's hardly fair on us all.

As for voting on the Jira, I don't believe it's of use in the context it's implemented in and only brings about heated arguments on a system that's not designed for politics it's designed for submitting bugs and ideas which should stand on their own and be as clear and too the point as possible.

If people want an issue resolved they should blog it and go to every linden meeting and push for it, not sit on their ass and expect a single vote to count towards changing the direction of a behemoth like Linden Lab.

The real vote you have is how you use the service by getting 3rd party viewers to develop and fix the viewer bugs and move yourself away from SL Viewer 2 which shows Linden Lab such things 3rd partys have implemented work and are needed by the user base, but for the case of policy changes you would be better organising inSL protests like people do in certain country's which they have to run the risk being locked up.

We also run the same risk as you have been temp banned on these pieces of software, if you really want it risk it do it in-world and like you do on blogs but don't do it anymore on the Jira or expect people to rally to vote on issues.

You and I both know people don't vote unless it effects them directly, find other ways to engage with them and promote your ideas to Linden Lab employees who can echo you.

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