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Cathiee McMillan

Hello Prok

Thank you for this i really didn't see what the issue is between Jump/Stroker/Cheer
It does seem like one person just looking to cause problems or try to instigate stuff between people.

Hmmmm the JLU police blotter.
I think that would turn into a smear campaign fest and flame war even more so.
May i ask who Kal-El said the alt was supposedly? I have my own sources i can verify stuff with.

Prokofy Neva


I see no reason to reveal the name of this supposed alt. I have several reasons for doing so. One, I have no second source. It's always good to get a second source. Two, I have no knowledge of this person or any reason to believe that what is sais about them is true, so I have no reason to publish their name. Three, I have reason, if anything, to believe that in fact this person is in good standing with the JLU now, so I can't tell whether this is some internecine warfare or what it is.

If the JLU has an allegation, let them make it.

The JLU police blotter wouldn't be a smear campaign because they'd be forced to make their case when they went public with allegations and not just pass on hearsay or chance encounters at meetings in SL.

And others could then comment.

Elex Dusk

In a post
regarding fundraising efforts for Beth Odets' surgery you complained about a resident attempting to make a profit by holding a clothing sale and donating half of the proceeds:

"I cry foul because Beth's friends and admirers and supporters raised US $13,000 real dollars -- and they didn't raise that from Eshi's methodology. They raised it from people who gave ALL their tips at rock concerts or ALL their proceeds from their dress sales like Ann Otoole or simply a tip of what they could afford, like me, which was symbolic and I take no shame in it. What's important isn't the amount; what's important is the principle of the thing. When your best friend -- supposedly -- has a need like this, you don't have your own hand out scooping up 50 percent of the proceeds. Imagine if I said "half price off rentals, donate for Beth" -- I'd be pilloried. I wouldn't live with myself with the sleaziness of that. So why is Eshi any different? She isn't. Seriously. It's about morality. And it's about standing up for it. If you don't do that, people behave like pigs."

Yet, here you are, on one hand making the claim you were trying to /help/ Stroker by contacting the authorities regarding what you perceived as a possible suicide, and, on the other hand selling copies of his sex bed in an effort to /recoup/ your costs (phone calls) in the effort to help him:

"Meanwhile, I've sold three copies of Stroker's bed for $100 a pop -- and I upped the price to see how it would do. I'm on my way to covering my long-distance phone bill trying to get the welfare check on him."

Specifically, as you stated: "What's important isn't the amount; what's important is the principle of the thing." When someone "has a need like this, you don't have your own hand out." And yet here you are, after the fact, with your hand out.

Anyway, consider yourself pilloried.

Prokofy Neva


Pillory away.

Stroker, a grown man with a wife and family and assets and capacity, has not suffered brain surgery like Beth.

He hasn't suffering anything except loss to his reputation possibly, and only for 15 minutes -- and all of his own doing.

He himself released his bed into the wild, and that means he can't care if someone takes it and resells it.

I'm paying Stroker the ultimate compliment, as I value his all-perms bed at least at $100, and three other people agree.

That's 100 times better than valuing his bed at 0.

Stroker was manipulating the public at some level with that public tweet, trying to get people to react, at least somewhere, and he succeeded beyond expectation. Stroker has all the help he needs, all the resources he needs, to pull himself out of whatever hole he has made *himself*. No one else has put him in that hole, least the brainless and manipulative Jumpman.

My comment about the phone bill is said tongue in cheek because, um, I think I can absorb the...$4.17 or whatever it was to make a few out of state calls.

But my income from this bed will likely total about...$1.82 for weeks on end because other people with it will have far greater capacity to sell it than me, on higher traffic venues.

Sluniverse is busy telling itself that the bed is old, its anims outdated, there are more valuable beds, it isn't a big deal.

Well, whatever. I believe in the free market. When someone puts out an all perms item in world without any instructions as to turning off perms upon redistribution, and is leaving SL and "gifting" the world, I take the gift. And I earn $100 a pop for it. That's how I roll. I believe in freedom.

You cannot police distribution of freebies through browbeating, naming and shaming, community ostracizing, and all these other primitive, medieval, village-mentality methods.

It has to start by turning off resell/transfer. That's all. Anything else is pious posturing by people who merely want power and merely want to control others' behaviour.

From the moment I read Stroker's tweets, I suspected that there wasn't a clear-cut, sincere, dire need there, especially as 20 hours had passed without apparent incident. However, I decided it would only be responsible to exercise due diligence so I did. So few people prove capable of taking action in SL. They are paralyzed in their self-doubts, recriminations, what-ifs. I'm not like that. I took action just in case.

And now I'd like to earn back my phone bill *shrugs*.

There should be more people like me in SL, the world would be a much better place.

Let this be a lesson to you how the invisible hand of the marketplace works, and works well.

Prokofy Neva

It's also helpful to know that I'm a person of very modest means with a fraction of Stroker's assets, even if he has fallen into bankruptcy. I'm the kind of frugal person who walks and doesn't take the bus, who turns off call-waiting because I can save $5, and that's $5 more I can give my kids for a special lunch out from school when they're allowed out.

So little things like saving $5 matter to me.

cube inada

virtualized, that was the error...

but SL sold such a seductive pile of BS....

you really need to know who you are before you start creating "avatars" or " fame names" as hollywood, and especially the sex trade in hollywood has taught so many, for so long... but once you hade to move to LA and get all sleazy..

now, one can do it from the ease of a tract house in anywhere ville ...

virtual - reality two words that end up with so many diagnosed with MIPS..;)


I watched the part of the show that you put it up. I found the cosplay crossdressing rather fascinating.

As far as Serpentine is concerned, I think he wanted out for quite awhile and only needed something to kick start the process. So all this occurred.

Whether we all like it or not, SL is forever branded as a redlight district, a virtual Amsterdam. Most should only know that the wildest most people get in SL is deciding to sit on their virtual porch to watch the virtual sun set.

karla dorn

So is there any truth to the rumor that Stroker stole sex gen or not. I really am beginning to have big doubts about Stroker there is some damning things said and I wonder if there is some truth to it all.

Go for it Prok, sell his product, he let it go full perm he knew exactly what would happen, he did this to himself. I do not have any sympathy for him I do not mourn his leaving. There are always new and better people ready to replace him, no is indispensable at all despite their own delusions. It's a dark day for stroker wallowing in his shame, i doubt his wife was happy when she realized her husband had fantasy about sex with daughters I am sure that has contributed to his decision to leave SL and to try and go with a bang, more of hiss if you ask me.,

Skylark Decuir

IMO the sexgen products were obsolete in 2008, the menus are poor and animations are very short, choppy and not very well done by todays standard. He has been riding a very old train and we all know it. The empire fell because lack of updates resulting in no sales of any kind. Nobody would close a lucrative sim. When i see him in his motion capture suit i just have to lol. He was on the cutting edge of 2008 at best. The full perms animations are not even very good freebie to the experienced gridster. Another oldbie who became lazy or complacent and is blaming others for their demise is all i see here.

kaori nakashima

when i was new in SL (2005), i distinctly remember the sexgen brand to be the property of one briggi bard, i believe? and i remember corsi was in her employ among others, at the time.

i was always a little confused when suddenly briggi seemed to be out of the picture and stroker was in charge. i never really delved into what went down, though.

stroker *has* always seemed a generally nice, generous and upstanding guy from my minimal interaction with him, though.

Prokofy Neva

Yes, Jumpman is ranting with the same point in my spam barrel. And yeah, I vaguely remember something about this. But it's only one side of the story.

Did Stroker buy this from them or commission them to do this as a work for hire? No, it seems it was a 50-50 split that stopped working after awhile. But if Stroker absorbed the cost of litigation -- which he most certainly did -- and advertising -- which was huge -- then if the knocked them off the 50-50 deal at some point, perhaps it's no surprise?

Again, I don't take Jumpman's version of the story or Briggi or Stroker's, I'd like to hear all side by side with evidence.

Oh, and there's no kaori nakashima in the People List. Are you Jumpman's alt when he isn't talking like he has a stake through is head?

Mycroft Mesmeriser

- - - - - - - -

Prokofy asks: Do the Lindens engage in black ops on their customers?

- - - - - - - -

Maybe. Here is a RL experience.

A few years ago, I was regularly performing SL work in a small town college library, where I would always sit in the same spot, using a table facing a wall, enjoying being antisocial. For a couple of weeks I noticed an out of place business casual looking guy (obviously not a student) show up at a table 10 feet or so nearby reading a newspaper which he broght in with him to read
for a short while. I will call this guy Obvious_Private_Investigator.

The final time Obvious_Private_Investigator visited he got a call on his cell phone, and I could hear the caller's voice, and the quiet conversation went like this:

Obvious_Private_Investigator: Hello. I cannot talk now.

Caller: I got an email from Famous_First_Name_Linden, and he says to shut down the investigation.

Obvious_Private_Investigator: I cannot talk right now.

Caller: Do you want me to pay the rent for the office space for next month?

Obvious_Private_Investigator: I'll have to talk to you later.

Obvious_Private_Investigator put away his cell phone, folded up his newspaper, and left. I pretended that I did not notice him.

Hopefully it had to do with something not related to me. I never told anyone that event until now, after reading Prokofy's question. So, do the Lindens engage in black ops on their customers? Seemed like a Famous_First_Name_Linden may have hired Obvious_Private_Investigator to check out my RL whereabouts.

Prokofy Neva

That sounds like a fun LARP, Mycroft.

kaori nakashima

i thought the criteria stated one uses an SL name or real name. this is the latter.

and jumpman's alt? i... don't even know what to say to that one, well, aside from no.

Prokofy Neva

If that's your real name, then link to your Facebook page so you can take responsibility for your comments here.

kaori nakashima

i don't use facebook, actually. so i'll be on my way, then.


I wrote a long comment but I'm unable to post it for some reason. Probably gets caught in the spam filter. This is just a test to see if I'm allowed to post comments here at all.


I think there might be several misconceptions here. Considering the paranoia and hysteria about everything related to sexual ageplay in SL, a reasonable paranoia given the legal situation, it is not surprising that people are quick to confuse *bleep* (starts with i, ends with "est", and triggers the spam filter) play with sexual ageplay. But one does not necessarily have anything to do with the other.

*bleep* play is very common in SL. While it does break a (RL) taboo, it does not break any law if all participants use adult avatars. I didn't see any child avatars in this National Geographic video. While I didn't know Stroker personally, from what I've seen in TV documentaries and SL snapshots the female avatars that he surrounded himself with looked clearly adult.

Polyamorous SL roleplayers and BDSM lifestylers often form RP "families" in SL and refer to their close friends and lovers as their parents, daughters, aunts, cousins etc., without engaging in sexual ageplay involving child avatars. So this is nothing uncommon or unusual in SL terms, and, like I said, perfectly legal.

Even in RL, people often refer to a generous older lover as a "sugar daddy", or use terms of endearment such as "baby" or "sweetie" when referring to their own lovers. An SL "daughter" is basically the same (and, when you think about it, less objectionable than calling your lover a "baby").

The other misconception is that Stroker's online relationships with his adult SL "daughters" somehow taint his fatherly relationship with his RL daughter. These are clearly two entirely different things. I highly doubt that Stroker was living out fantasies in SL that were in any way related to his RL family. Again, the female avatars that he interacted with in SL were clearly meant to represent adult women.

What I base this judgement on is that I've role-played the twin sister of a friend and ex-lover in SL. I happen to have two sisters in RL, but that is completely unrelated. I've never fantasized about having sex with either of them. Establishing family-like bonds with SL lovers serves an entirely different purpose. It simply leads to a higher level of emotional intimacy, and it can help to structure polyamorous "families" into a certain hierarchy. Large polyamorous groups can get really complicated without a more complex and tiered social order than the traditional two roles of husband and wife or boyfriend and girlfriend.

I just wanted to put that out there. Jumpman's vile accusations of ageplay and pedophilia are as unfounded as ever. As far as I know, these accusations started when Stroker reacted to Jumpy's disgusting, KKK style effigy with his own "Humpboy Lame" effigy. Jumpman was looking for a way to get back at him and came up with the inane claim that the "Humpboy" would represent a legal minor. The little sociopath should have been banned ten times over, not only for his harrassment and defamation of Stroker, but also for impersonating a Linden. By not banning him, LL open themselves to the accusation that they indeed used this creature as their "black ops" guy.

PS: Personally, I think that the commercial resale of freebies is a worse moral offense than consensual virtual incest RP. The resale of the SexGen base is an especially bad idea, seeing that Stroker apparently forgot to ask Craig Altman for permission before he released his animations with full perms. The ownership of the animations made by Briggi and Corsi is also questionable from what I read. If anything can be held against Stroker, it is the release of this freebie.

Prokofy Neva

"Personally, I think that the commercial resale of freebies is a worse moral offense than consensual virtual incest RP"

Good Lord. So *very* SL.

Incest does not trigger the spam filter, don't be stupid.

Stroker says very frankly on TV -- and others defended him on Sluniverse.com for this who knew of his "family", that he has cybersex with people he calls "daughters" on SL. They portray young women but are not ageplay, and they are run by adult females who are consenting. Even so, most people find this creepy and disconcerting, and Stroker has only himself to blame for the reaction he got to this "confession".

Trying to backdate it and normalize it -- the usual methods of the BDSM mind-controller types like yourself -- doesn't fly, because people don't remove their basic visceral dislike and disapproval of this deviant behaviour, and *that's ok*.

I'm certainly not giving Jumpman a pass, and I don't think his effigy constitutes ageplay, and I don't think Stroker is guilty of ageplay.

But what you have in common with Soviet and Nazi regimes is the promotion of deviant sex to undermine morality and give the state some hold over people, even as it reduces free enterprise and private property so that they have no recourse from the state. Thanks for outing yourself.

While Jumpman is odious, the Lindens need cause to ban him. Making an effigy of Stroker on a burning cross is disgusting and sacrilegious to me, and one of the reasons why I don't want anything to do with him. But LL, the libertian technocommie hippies, don't have any religious sentiment to speak of, unless you count Burning Man, and they don't care about burning crosses as long as they aren't used to harass gays or racial minorities. Coming from one sex-bed hustler to another sex-bed hustler, they don't care.


Well, the three instances of the word "incest" in my post did trigger something. I have no idea if it was the spam filter, but the blog software told me that my post could not be published.

Anyway, I'm relieved that you are aware of the difference between incest RP and sexual ageplay. And I can see why the less deviant and adventurous majority finds it creepy and disconcerting, ageplay or not, but the same could be said about BDSM activities, the Gorean lifestyle, or yiffing furries (probably even about gay sex). All of that is perfectly legal in RL -- including submissives calling their Master "daddy" -- and I see no reason why stricter rules should apply in SL. If anything, there are *less* moral concerns, considering the virtuality of the experience. After all, people even kill each other in online PvP games, which should be a much bigger concern than any form of consensual deviant sex.

PS: Where did you get the strange idea that the Soviets and Nazis promoted deviant sex? o.O I don't know about the Soviets (although I have read articles about Stalin's criminalization of homosexuality), but I know for certain that the Nazis rounded up gays, lesbians, transgender people and other "deviants". Gays and crossdressers were even experimented on in concentration camps by Nazi "scientists", supposedly in an attempt to "cure" them. The Nazis were the epitome of ultra-right-wing, authoritarian conservatives, down to Hitler's frequent invocation of God and Jesus Christ in order to rally the Christian public in support of his policies and war efforts. Please don't be one of the people who are trying to rewrite the horrible history of my country.

Prokofy Neva

Ishtara, you're really truly vile.

If the word "incest" puts posts in the spam file, how to understand that others don't end up in the spam file with that word?!

Um, I get the distinction, but it's not one that makes me condemn it any the less. It's still reprehensible.

The entire BDSM cult is coercive and manipulative and I roundly condemn it.

Of course the Nazis promoted deviant sex. As did the Soviets. You are ill-read. Indeed the Nazis experimented on people and rounded up gays and forced them to wear pink triangles. But they themselves practiced deviant sex, as did the Soviets, and among their own ranks were homosexuals and they had gay bars. That you would think this is somehow false or has to be suppressed or undoes the critique of them is typical of the strait-jacket thinking that people like you are so guilty of.

Among the legacies of the Nazis is the BDSM cult in Germany and the attempt to normalize violence and coercion.

The Nazis have socialist/left wing elements as well as right-wing/nationalist elements in their totalitarian cult.

Hitler was not known for calling on Jesus Christ. If he called on God and country in some speeches, what of it? He doesn't represent a Christian leader, or Christianity in any organized sense, that's whacky. Nazism had paganism as a form of religion, whatever amalgam of Christianity was mixed with it.

Of course the story of Nazi paganism is now called "occultism" that is supposedly sanctifying negative aspects of Christianity, and is even called a "Holocaust Myth". That's part of the crazy revisionism you see on this subject.
Don't be one of the horrible people who tries to imply that people who believe in God and Jesus Christ and invoke them are somehow related to fascism or Nazis, that's just communist clap-trap.

You don't own history, and people will discuss it, and *your* revisionism, as they please.


"But they (the Nazis) themselves practiced deviant sex, as did the Soviets, and among their own ranks were homosexuals and they had gay bars."

That is a lie propagated by some anti-gay authors and organisations in the USA, just like the "the Nazis were atheists" myth. I have extensively studied the history of my country and find this as reprehensible as Holocaust denial, which has also found its way into many pseudo-historic publications. Just because you read it somewhere doesn't mean it's true.

"Among the legacies of the Nazis is the BDSM cult in Germany ..."

BDSM and fetishism existed long before the Nazi era, and were as illegal in Nazi Germany as all other non-standard sexual kinks. Christian right-wing authoritarians in the USA can't stand the thought of how dangerously close they are to the authoritarian fascists of this era, which is why they desperately try to take everything they hate about the liberal left (which was also hated by Hitler btw) and associate it with Nazi Germany. It won't fly. You don't get to rewrite history.

"Hitler was not known for calling on Jesus Christ."

Oh, he was. Just like the right-wing fascists in the modern day USA, he often invoked the Christian god and Jesus. In "Mein Kampf", he bases his irrational hatred of Jews on "Jesus drove the moneychangers out of the temple" and "they killed our Lord and savior". It seems to me that you are the one who needs to do some reading.


PS: Of course I'm not saying that all Christians are fascists. Nothing against moderate Christianity (although it should make people think that religion is only harmless when practiced in great moderation). But Christian fundamentalism and the manipulation of a Christian public through the use of religious language (think of Bush's "god told me to invade Iraq") are inextricably linked to
right-wing authoritarianism and the legislation of a very questionable anti-LGBT morality.

Throw corporatism into the mix, and what you get is fascism. The Italian inventors of the word also called fascism "estato corporativo", the corporate state. As Mussolini once said "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power". Don't get me wrong, I'm not an anti-capitalist. But I like my capitalism with a huge side of personal liberty and a dash of market socialism. The latter is debatable, but the former is a must for any humane and civilized society.

Prokofy Neva


It's not a lie, and you're some kind of sectarian loon if you believe that.

It's not anti-gay to tell the truth about some of the Nazis. Indeed, the oppression of gays if they were gays among them who were in the closet is a classic case seen not only in Nazi Germany.

Again, among the legacies of Nazism is the BDSM cult. It doesn't matter if it existed long before; it was also within the Nazi movement itself. And the continued justification of violence and coercion as an ideological proposition for a greater goal is indeed a Nazi legacy, and a represensible one.

Christian right-wingers in the US are not dangerously close to murderous right-wing regimes. They don't kill people. They don't advocate killing people as an institutionalized proposition. If this or that leader justifies the death penalty or calls for executing Assange, that isn't an institution position of either the right or Christianity.

Meanwhile, murderous theocratic regimes like the Iranian regime do justify killing in large numbers as an institutional position.

You don't seem bright enough to grasp these nuances and your need to keep arguing about this is somehow embedded in your need for moral equivalency and the sense of shame you have for your own country's past and its legacy in your own lifestyle. That then impels you to do a moral shift of blame to others and a making of them as equivalent.

Again, *Hitler was not known for calling on Jesus*. That's pretty easily established. And if he did now and then as "God and country," in the nationalist fascist vein, that is in no way remotely like Rick Perry having a prayer rally or Obama attending a prayer breakfast.

That you can't tell the difference again, lets us know how depraved you are, and looking for legitimacy of your depravity by shifting attention from your own accountability for violence and coercion and trying to pin it on others.

This is a very old story with the German hard left and with the BDSM cult, in Germany and out. Hardly persuasive.

Bush didn't say "God told me to invade Iraq" in the way you imply. He may have felt that the moral thing to do in a just war was to stop a murderous leader. It wasn't justified in the end, but one comes back to the obvious: the lion's share of killings in Iraq are performed by terrorists, extremists, rebels funded by Iran -- a murderous theocratic regime. They aren't the fault of American soldiers. American soldiers being there may be some theoretical justification for the deadly thugs of Al Qaeda, but in the end, they have only themselves and the regimes backing them to blame. You certainly don't dislodge American troops by firing on unarmed peaceful Catholics at their church service and killing dozens of them, or firing on Muslims praying at shrines, or gunning down people in the marketplace. Sorry, no sale on that one, Ishtara, your lunatic justification of violence, starting with your own lifestyle, and spreading to the giving of thugs like this a pass to take a swipe at America, will never be convincing as it is immoral.

There's a big difference between Mussolini and Goldman Sachs -- again, if you can't see the difference, then you are helping to justify the greater evil. And most people here don't buy your recipes of "market socialism," which is fake.

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