Linden Lab's TOS Does Not Have Jurisdiction Outside of Its Servers

Here we go again with one of these annoyances who think he can "teach you a lesson" and "put you in your place" regarding the age-old question of whether publication of chatlogs outside of Linden Lab's servers is something for which you can be banned.

In the entire history of Second Life -- 10 years or at least 9 -- no one has ever been able to get this to stick. Once, a Linden herself -- Meta Linden -- tried to get this to stick when she criticized what someone wrote on their blog about Voice coming to SL and outing some of the female avatars who were males in real life. This Linden had absolutely no right to do this and was completely unsuccessful in trying to get criticism of SL or its customers punished outside of Linden Lab's servers.

Linden Lab simply can't attempt to apply its TOS outside of its servers, that's a given.

And laws concerning the publication of chat logs or telephone calls vary from state to state, and in one-party New York State, either party can publish the logs. In France, perhaps they can't. In some other state, perhaps they can't. But in many jurisdictions, you can.

Furthermore, regardless of these "telephone laws," to mount some kind of libel or defamation of character case anywhere in the US, you'd have to reach the threshold of a) proving the information was not true b) proving, if false, that it was knowingly or maliciously false c) proving that it harmed a livelihood.

None of these things will be possible to anonymous strangers on the Internet.

Right before this heckling IM from this guy Toboe, I just had two notecards come in from the blocked Rory Serpente, a psychotic individual who has harassed many people in SL for years and years and who claims to be an Australian barrister.

So it stands to reason that this fellow harassing me below could be Rory Serpente, given Rory's latest attempted attack (since he's blocked, I don't have the notecards).

But even if he isn't -- and he may not be -- he's still a douche for trying to heckle somebody in a virtual world over a notice on their profile. He's also dead wrong about LL policy and the law in general.

Some of this is from inworld IMs and some from my email sent queue:

[18:30] Toboe Portal: Just letting ya know that even in New York State, you're still bound to SL's rules. Even though you claim that you can publish it, I think you still will be banned, since the other resident may not be in New York State. Therefore, you'd be violating their privacy. Just a friendly warning.

[18:51] Toboe Portal: While in SL, you're dealing with a great-many people who are not bound by the state laws of New York. Thus why I'm telling you, LL explicitly states in the ToS (which you agreed to) that a resident must provide explicit permission. I think the only exception is in reports to LL.

[2013/04/15 19:23]  Prokofy Neva: You sound like a new alt of Rory. You're wrong. SL's TOS has no jurisdiction outside their servers. They cannot police or ban me for something I publish on my blog on another server. It doesn't matter that it's "the law of the State of NY". Many *countries* have exactly the same law. The warning is to alert people who attempt to sue *in real life*, not idiots like you who think you can get some abuse report *in SL* to work. You won't. SL has no jurisdiction outside of SL. So no one needs your fake "friendly" warnings, but thanks for outing your alts again.

[11:24] Toboe Portal: First of all, who is Rory? Second of all, I'm just standing up for my privacy rights granted me in ToS. As for what you publish in SL, it still applies if you came across the information in SL, sorry to burst your self-theistic bubble. You're not the only one with rights granted to them by their "state".

[2013/04/16 15:38]  Prokofy Neva: No, it does not at all apply. The Lindens have no jurisdiction outside of their servers. They cannot prosecute what someone publishes outside their servers even if it originates in SL. This has been tested for 10 years, for thousands of times by hundreds of people, so you'll just have to give it up.[11:14] Toboe Portal: 1st of all, back to my first question: Who is Rory? Second of all, your right as "press" (I'm assuming that's what you are, because press tend to give themselves more rights than they have while infringing on the rights of others) doesn't include slander, libel, or smear campaigns. Also doesn't include misquotes, uncited information (you'd have to cite SL if you took someone's information from it, which means that it IS in LL's "jurisdiction"). Ah, but thirdly, let me remind you of the ToS which you agreed to. It is binding, both in and out of SL.

Prokofy Neva:  You're Rory, that's what. You're also wrong. A successful libel suit in the US would require meeting the threshold of a) falsehood b) malice c) injury to livelihood. Publication of an unflattering chatlog of an anonymous avatar in Second Life not linked to any real person, showing what they said, with a good-faith fair representation of what they said (cut and paste) and hardly any injury to their livelihood obviously. Linden Lab has absolutely no jurisdiction outside of its servers, end of story. The TOS does not apply outside these servers. Now run along Rory, abuse reported once again.

[11:06] Toboe Portal: Ooo, I'm so scared. First of all, since I know I'm not this "Rory" fellow, I know that you're a complete idiot. Second of all, I just warned you of the ToS. You think LL is going to care about me doing that?

[11:11] Toboe Portal: Now with that said, if I ever, ever, EVER see any part of any of my works, including private conversations (AKA "IM's") recreated, retransmitted, or re-whatever-you-may without my explicit consent, I will AR the offender. And they will be banned from SL (hopefully) for violation of the ToS.

[11:13] Toboe Portal: Now that you've managed to turn a friendly warning into a complete mess, good luck. I doubt I'll see you again, because it sounds like there are others out there who've warned you, which means you know you're violating ToS. Blatant disregard for the rights of others is never acceptable. Oh, and I don't live in New York. So keep your shoddy "rights" to yourself. They don't apply here.

Prokofy Neva: Oh, fuck off. I've been in SL for more than eight years. A number of people have tried your ridiculous uninformed gambit, and not only on me but others. It absolutely holds no weight. Linden Lab's TOS has absolutely no jurisdiction outside of its own servers, full stop. These laws apply in many states and not merely NY. See you in court.

Prokofy Neva: You need to have a lesson taught to you, and it will be delivered shortly. Anyone can reproduce your chat on their servers outside of SL, you can abuse report them to the cows come home, and absolutely nothing will happen. So go find some other target, Rory, you are abuse reported for harassment.

Comments

[Amanda Dallin]

I suppose a judge in a state or country that requires all parties to a conversation to give consent to it being recorded could find that posting chat from SL is illegal. There is not much precedent to go by and most judges will not want to waste time on what to them is a game.

Also, no prosecutor is going too spend two seconds on virtual game wire tapping.

[Reg]

Prokofy Neva: "Oh, fuck off."

Sparkling comeback there, dumbass :-)

[Breen Whitman]

Linden's reach is worse, and much broader than this example.

Banned IP's reside not just with the Linden system but within the Routers of their major ISP.

Hence, if you try to access another business's servers who also happen to use that same ISP, you won't be permitted.

I know this happens.

[Glitch Fairplay]

@Breen
Off topic and completely false.