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02/29/2020

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Circe Boucher

To anyone reading this... to avoid one sided situation I will respond here. I have contacted this person also trying to resolve it. Below is transcript:
[18:57] C I R C E (circe.boucher): Hey there, sorry to disturb you, today me and my partner (roons warblood) were at madpea playing a discounted gacha for a table, chairs and some ornaments on it, table is a rare and after crazy amounts of plays. The rare didn't drop for either of us, to complete our collection we decided to look for it on marketplace, he purchased it from you, unfortunately when it unboxed there was only lm and notecard in the box, now we have no use for 2 of these tables so we aren't trying to scam you, we are decorating our house and really wanted the table
[18:57] C I R C E (circe.boucher): any chance you could please check?
[18:57] Prokofy Neva: https://twitter.com/Prokofy/status/1233949490933063681
[18:58] C I R C E (circe.boucher): as for his name, its from a comic book, we are both creators and have owned a store on sl for years
[18:58] Prokofy Neva: https://3dblogger.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2020/02/is-this-a-scam-from-goons-warblood-you-decide.html
[18:58] C I R C E (circe.boucher): So as a creator and owner you use form of public opinion rather than resolve the situation?
[18:58] Prokofy Neva: I checked, and I had two copies originally, one I turned into the store to get a copyable version, which is all I have, and the other I put on the MP
[18:58] Prokofy Neva: yes
[18:58] C I R C E (circe.boucher): I am coming to you very calmly in hopes we can resolve it
[18:59] C I R C E (circe.boucher): I'm not sure what happened but for whatever reason it truly wasn't in the box
[18:59] Prokofy Neva: when I find someone like your lovely "Goon" immediately accusing me of theft and engaging in behaviour that is a very, very common scam and claiming not to realize it, sure, I publicize it heavily

You made an assumption based on someone's name. You didn't look to check. I understand sometimes marketplace does mess up and it has happened to me before but your level of aggression when a person messages you to advise you the item was not in the box was to accuse them of lying based on their name. Not checking the issue, not checking your inventory to see if in fact this item was in the inventory.
It's actually quite appalling as this is not just about the lindens but that there is NO safety net for buyers of gachas on marketplace.
Same as you may assume people are trying to scam you based on their name (you really think if someone was trying to scam you they would use a name like "iamscammerafteryourgache. resident"?) Often people do use the system to scam customers selling gachas (especially rares) that arent there.
There may have been a genuine mistake made when listing was placed however your service is abysmal as best.

Gio Capelo

As i said before we are creators in multiple events and i would not put my wife and i at jeopardy or our business over 950l. You sold a empty box and then automatically accused me based off my name mind you of being a scammer because of YOUR past issues with people. Judgemental much? I guess you never heard og goons and goblins or the GOON comic book or Goons Ghouls and gore? Like i said i came to you nicely you insulted me so i insulted you back! My wife came to you respectfully and you still refused to speak to her you are a scammer sir! I would be very careful purchasing land or anything else from this account in the future people and anyone who wants to discuss this further can find me on facebook at Gio Capelo or my wife on Circe Boucher. Enjoy the 950ls you stole you wont get another purchase or buy from me again.

Prokofy Neva

As I said, my assumption based on someone's name is very valid, given the usual connotation of this name with griefers, 4-chan and Anonymous, groups that have mercilessly griefed me for years.

That name, coupled with rude, belligerent behaviour where someone INSTANTLY accuses me of theft and a deliberate scam and INSTANTLY is going to plaster my name on Facebook are all red warning flags for scammer behaviour ITSELF.

It's very common in SL.

I have no reason to take things out of boxes and sell empty boxes. I don't have this box in inventory OR the single copy; I have only the copyable version I got from Madpea. So there's something odd here.

Why would being creators in multiple events mean anything? Sure, it's less likely someone is a scammer if they are a creator and have some sort of product and customer service. But it's not an instant exoneration at all. The speed with which these people hurled abuses and hastened to try to ruin my reputation are all markers for suspect behaviour.

And why would you instantly accuse someone with a well-known inworld business who is 16 years in SL of being a common empty box scammer? A thing like this -- if it did happen -- happened by accident, not by a scam. The HASTE with which the scam accusation is made gives one pause. It's far more likely that this caper of claiming an empty box is the scam -- that's why merchants of gatchas put these long disclaimers on their profiles and sometimes in each item. It's on my profile, too on the MP.

Note what I said:


Well, I think that's unlikely, and given your name, I'm inclined not to believe you
Screenshot it all your like, but that isn't proof of anything, you could have removed it from the box
well report it all you like, this seems odd
screenshot all you like, there is something that doesn't sound right here
I'm finding this an odd thing that you are hastily accusing me of theft, seems like a set-up

etc

Nowhere did I say, "I refuse to refund you or turn over the gatcha to you."

At this point, since I don't see the gatcha single copy in inventory OR on the MP, it would have to be a refund.

But I want a large amount like this to age a day or so until I hear from somebody besides the girlfriend. I would like outside input.

I think it's all you can do in a world of furry goons who are rightly associated with scams.

Gio Capelo

Furry? What are you talking about im no furry? Look at my facebook pic look at my pics on my sl profile. Noone is a furry Circe Boucher has owned RAWR! for years and years she was also one of the biggest NEKO stores on the grid! Im not sure what exactly you are trying to say here but the bottom line is noone accused you of being a scammer until you accused me of being one based off a NAME! The bottom line is you sold me a empty box accident or not you made a mistake. Then as soon as i told you about it you judge me unfairly and expected respect and kindness after it. You get what you give my good sir! As i said we are in multiple events on SL and i wouldn't try and SCAM someone especially when it could damage our brand or business. Like i said if you need the 950 that bad keep it im not going to continue arguing with you over it you made the mistake and are clearly not willing to refund the money or send the table. So im not going to continue going back and forth with you! Its not even about the lindens to me at this point.

Prokofy Neva

Then you get this sort of nonsense:


[20:23] yoBanx: Disclosing private Second Life conversations Sharing or posting a conversation inworld or in the Second Life forums without consent of all involved Residents is a violation of the Terms of Service. ... "Conversation" means text that originally came from Second Life chat or Second Life instant messages

A blog like this pasting chat inworld outside the SL servers is NOT a violation of the TOS because...it is outside of SL.

And given the lack of free media and independent judiciary in SL, the ONLY recourse you have to get to the bottom of a dispute like this is PUBLICITY and MORE PUBLICITY.

As to the protestations about unfair prejudice and making assumptions -- I am completely unapologetic because this is a common scam, there are red flags, and I'm not required to hand over money to a stranger when I have in good faith posted an item on the MP and have a good business reputation. I'm in business, too. I'm in events too (as if that means anything anyway -- it doesn't).

If you own a company called RAWR! and call yourself "Goons" and then complain that someone has mistakenly designated you a "furry," I have no words. You are rightly associated with furries and like it or not, furries are heavily associated with goons and griefing.

It doesn't matter.

It's a furry mentality. Antlers and whatnot. BTW, I buy and wear antlers and I have furry avatars even. So what? "Furry" isn't about literalism. It isn't even about all furries, many of whom I have found to be decent and are good tenants of mine.

It's about a kind of griefer.

It's about this kind of swaggering asshole who rants and rages and accuses you of theft after 30 seconds over a gatcha box that didn't deliver.

People who make accusations with this set of characteristics:

1. The name goon
2. A company that sounds like a furry thing
3. Rudeness and belligerence
4. Threats to ruin your reputation

Well, I have no call to believe them. So I don't. I wait to see if I can get more independent information -- which I haven't gotten yet, BTW.

So far, I've heard from this guy, his girlfriend, who naturally backs him up, some creepy little pal of theirs who thinks it's a violation to publish chat on your blog (it's not) -- and nobody else.

(I warn about this on my profile BTW)

Because they are tiny minds who can't read (the TOS says "Disclosing private Second Life conversations Sharing or posting a conversation inworld or in the Second Life forums..."

Business disputes between strangers are not "private conversations".

But regardless, this conversation is neither inworld or on the forums, so let's not be idiots here.

Waiting for further assessment.

Prokofy Neva

Seriously guys, you give yourself an aggressive, war-mongering griefy name like "Goons Warblood" and you then posture and gyrate that you are a victim of prejudice and tragically misunderstood?

And if there is "no safety" for buyers, there is no safety for sellers, either, as it is a very, very common scam to claim empty boxes and non-deliveries -- which is why all gatcha sellers put up these elaborate disclaimers.

If someone is polite and normal, you're more likely to take them at the benefit of the doubt. But precisely because there IS no safety from false claims, you have to go by things like names or reputation. Selling antlers at TMD isn't a reputational value point for me LOL. The name "Goons" has undone any value that might have.

Prokofy Neva

And what part of this instant nasty transaction is "nice"? People have no sense of themselves. Again:

[18:27] Goons Warblood hello
[18:27] Prokofy Neva: Hi
[18:27] Goons Warblood: i just purchased a madpea gacha table from you for 950
[18:27] Goons Warblood: its no in the box
[18:27] Goons Warblood: conquer of the world table
[18:28] Prokofy Neva: Well, I think that's unlikely, and given your name, I'm inclined not to believe you
[18:28] Goons Warblood: i can screen shot it
[18:28] Goons Warblood: and my wife
[18:28] Goons Warblood: is standing right here
[18:28] Goons Warblood: you took 950 from me
[18:28] Prokofy Neva: Screenshot it all your like, but that isn't proof of anything, you could have removed it from the box
[18:29] Goons Warblood: ill just report it to my friend
[18:29] Prokofy Neva: I upload my gatchas in the boxes, or as is
[18:29] Goons Warblood: and ill make sure to post this on facebook
[18:29] Prokofy Neva: well report it all you like, this seems odd

Instantly accuses me of theft, and with ZERO awareness of how is aggressive name comes across to people outside his little furry circle.

Gio Capelo

You know the funny thing is your defending yourself a awful lot here. Your starting to sound guilty and yes when people sale empty boxes on mp the community has a right to know! Its a huge scam and it has been a scam for years! So yes i sure did let my facebook friends and other creators know about the situation. Like i said enjoy the 950 lol. Ive already reported this to linden labs and im sure when they into it they wont find any table sent from you. Im done going back and forth with you over 950l lmao enjoy it buy yourself something nice : )

Gio Capelo

You know for someone who says im the bully you sure are having fun attacking my name, our store, our products and any other thing you can lmao. Who's the real bully here? Hmmmmm! I have not yet once attacked you personally until after you attacked my name and i was polite when i first msgd you.YOU immediately attacked me based off a name! A NAME! You don't know me you never met me so you JUDGED me! The very same thing you are still doing with your constant disrespect My wife also msgd you respectfully! Like i said your a scammer and i let people know about it! Sorry not sorry enjoy the lindens tho!

Anonymity

Mister Prokofy Neva you sound very guilty and racist. So someone chose the name "Goons" and you say just because of the mans SECONDLIFE name being "goons" that means hes a bad person? Your doing alot of unnecessary and extremely unprofessional things over a total of 950 Lindens which is USD$ 5.15 . My good sir if your simply arguing over something that could be a big mistake then maybe you shouldn't sell items on marketplace any longer. You claim to have been in business in Secondlife for 15 years now but you do all this for attention? Either your a horrible business person or extremely racist due to someone name they chose on a virtual game.

Business Owners like yourself who also talk down on someone for "selling antlers" at a TMD Event is just down right unprofessional and the person "yoBanx" is very correct. You are not allowed to share conversations on or outside of Secondlife without the persons permission. So 15 years of business you should learn the rules of TOS before you violate them and have temper tantrums on blogger websites making a complete fool out of yourself.

Have a blessed day sir. You are a horrible business owner, Extremely racist and I hope your business is closed down and Linden Labs closes your accounts for your numerous TOS violations on this forum!

Anonymity

And the fact that you post "Linden Labs" on here now just made it officially a "secondlife forum" You aren't the sharpest knife in the kitchen are you?

SpicyTalpidae

(Given the usual connotation of this name with griefers, 4-chan and Anonymous, groups that have mercilessly griefed me for years)might explain the wanting clarification that the buyer is not a scammer of sorts. Simple solution verification by someone other then the partner and or someone with abusive tone or text would suffice? Then a simple hand shake, then agreed mistakes were made (that happens in SL) but not knowingly and then an exchange of money refunded, sounds easy enough. The insults and pointing fingers of racism are unfounded since the explanation of why name was viewed as such. To then attack the person and character in world and business etc is taking it in directions this should of never needed to go. Prokofy has been an outstanding member of the SL society for years and would be the last person to overlook an empty box, let alone try to mislead anyone and sell a box of empty content. Prokofy has more in SL and business then most people would see in their life time. He has worked very closely with reputable big players. It is my understanding you both should just shake hands, and walk away without any further confrontation.

Gio Capelo

Spicy this is all i wanted was a refund. Being judged for a name i picked was off putting. I get msgs all the time from people with names like Haxzor and Ddos but i dont automatically judge them based off that name. That's just as bad as judging someone based off gender or sexuality. I was polite and not at all rude mistakes happen i have bought a few items off market place someone made a mistake and listed a empty box they refunded me my money or they produced the item they didn't jump to immediately calling me a liar or a scammer based off my NAME. That's what upset me if the table is produced or a refund is given i have no issues shaking hands but at this point i felt and still do feel disrespected.

Prokofy Neva

As Spicy -- whom I don't know -- said very plainly -- and as I had said:

"Simple solution -- verification by someone other then the partner and or someone with abusive tone or text would suffice?"

Indeed.

The level of drama and crazy and threats of Facebook ruination (which people should realize don't faze me) suggests there is something "up" here.

So I want it to age a bit and see what falls down.

This isn't a Second Life server or property or affiliated with SL -- it's just a blog. And I don't scurry around and put emblems or disclaimers or anything of the sort because this is merely my blog and it speaks for itself. The Lindens, God bless 'em, do not extend their jurisdiction outside of their servers.

Everyone knows I'm not an empty box scammer. Meanwhile, I can't be sure these two aren't fake claimers because they're trying to recoup their big gatcha expenditure trying to get a rare. So I want this to age a bit and see if anyone else comes forward and says they were victimized, too.

SL has a relentless deluge of hateful, aggressive, creepy names that give it a dark edge and some people take delight in it. I don't. And I put my foot down and I speak the truth about the connotations with these aggressive names associated with griefers.

I'm not interested in Kumbaya, hand-shaking, non-hostility pacts, etc. etc.

I'm interested in waiting two days to see if anyone else comes forward and says "Oh, he tried that on me" or "Oh, I can see you may have a point here." If not, then I can revisit the question of a refund.

Gio Capelo

You can keep babbling on and on and on as long as you like. Bottom line is your a scammer! I went back to the store today 2 plays got the rare and i took a picture of me getting it from madpea. Also added that to the scammer post i made about you. Like everyone else is saying why would i need to go back play it again and win the table if i already HAD the one you scammed me for good day scammer like i said enjoy the 950ls you OBVIOUSLY need the 5 dollars more then me have a happy meal and a large drink on me bud!

Gio Capelo

Oh ps i also dropped the box and got the copy version at madpeas gacha exchange area! Unlike you i didn't post just the leaf on marketplace with only a note card and store lm in it. If you had posted the REAL ITEM it would of come in a box not just a leaf everyone knows all madpeas rares come boxed to exchange for a copy version. You sir are a fraud and a thief! By the way if your looking for land check out the Chungs or RGF Stay as far away from this guy as you can....

Stephanie Meyer

I would say "Go ahead and give the guy his money." Things happen.

Prokofy Neva

If you want to get a copyable version from Madpea or other merchants, everyone knows you have to put the unopened box on their device. You can't take it out of its box and expect it to work.

If it is some kind of Epiphany or other type of thing, it might come in a double box, but this was Enchantment, not Epiphany. Even if it had a double box -- and I don't see that the other objects in that gatcha do -- why would you keep an empty box and try to sell that on the MP unless you are a total criminal and idiot? A person in business with a good reputation who has sold thousands of gatchas isn't going to do that.

I don't have that no-copy box in inventory, I only have the copy one; I don't see the item or the box at the site where I put out the copyable version. So where is it?

Sure, things happen, but the enormous agida and aggressiveness I've gotten from this "nice person" lets me know something is off. I would like this to age some more.

Worse, now this idiot is telling us his "cover story" and claiming he went and won another one, possibly to account for why he has one at his home or shop if I supposedly didn't deliver the item. Weird, eh?

Originally I was inclined to let this age 3 days and see if anyone came forward, then give the refund merely as an act of good will in the face of very bad will. But now I don't know, since this story is now about winning the rare from a very tough gatcha. Hmmm...

Instead of simply saying, "Can you check, maybe it was deleted or lost by accident" and assuming the benefit of the doubt, that this couldn't possibly be a deliberate scam, instead of saying "Come and see the set at my store, I'm a person in business who has no need to scam on the MP" -- and realizing that is exactly the description of me, instead I'm subjected to a deluge of crap and false accusations that I have deliberately scammed him.

Further information and opinions welcomed.

Persephone

This is just the standard Prokofy routine, nothing to see here.

> Gets confused by something technological and makes mistakes
> Decides the problem must be due to griefers, scammers or technocommunists
> Blogs about it
> Sends the other party a message gloating about the blog entry. Often referring to them as "big guy".

Yawn.

Sarilia Tryce

She's also anti-LGBT. The entire reason Prokofy got the group of people from Woodbury University banned was because she knew they were a gay and trans college group and didn't like or understand their goofy memes from Reddit. She should have been banned from Second Life a long time ago for harassing and lying about people. Blog posts and posting private DMs like this in public is just one example of how hateful and unhinged she is. Is what she's doing here against ToS?

Prokofy Neva

1. For the record, of course I'm not anti-LGBT, that's ridiculous, and there's no evidence of that whatsoever.
2. Woodbury was abuse reported by me and many others not because they're gay or transgender -- that's insane. They're reported for crashing sims, griefing people and hey -- spewing particles all over sims of textures that in fact are anti-gay, antisemitic, racist, etc. That's all established.
3. You wouldn't be banned for "lying about people" but it's not about me -- the Lindens can look at server records and know exactly what goes on and that's why Woodbury, not me is banned LOL. I haven't harassed anyone; they did for years.
4. DMs like this are not "private" but statements to a public figure about a public matter and PS on my profile I write that your abusive IM to me

Part of the whole shtick of this gang is to engage in this kind of word salad -- preposterous allegations made to distract from the actual offenses in the hope that if they point the finger and say, "Oh, look over that, oh, anti-gay!" that they might get someone to believe their false statement and their own real actions will be ignored. And it works, as we can see from the thinky pieces about this griefer group in places like the Chronicle of Higher Education.

For the zillionth time, posting anybody's remarks from SL on your blog outside of SL is not an offense against the TOS because LL has no jurisdiction over your blog on another server, they can only police their own world and web site. And again, this kind of idiotic faux legalistic discussion only distracts -- again -- from their crimes.

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