Loony Luna has put this in a comment, but I'll answer it in a post so it doesn't fall from view:
Prokofy, I fear there has been a grave misunderstanding between us. I entered into the thread to challenge you regarding the demonization you frequently exhibit toward all technology. When I spoke of animats related to artificial intelligence I was referring to nanobiotechnology, and I asked you to look the word 'animats' up for a clearer understanding. This refers to the way 'tiny robots' could help us medically in the future, and is a very exciting field. Instead, you lumped me in with some sort of technocommunism ideas of yours by accusing me of being part of some kind of techno-cult, and I received the following message from you, which you failed to mention here in your blog: " Prokofy Neva: Coming into a thread about finding facts regarding griefers, and spouting your theories, which I don't support at all as they are fascistic, is a form of harassment itself. It's not about you "disagreeing with my ideas." It's about harassment with your theories that only support griefing in the end, in a thread seeking ways to curb them. So I saw what you did there. It's not merely a derail. It's a form of harassment with ideas that you seek because you imagine they give you power or your group power or some cult power but they are abusive to others. You have not been democratically elected in a liberal democracy under the rule of law to provide your "help" on "AI"." Basically, you are saying here that I'm an abuser...a facist, a harasser, supporting griefing, part of some sick cult, trying to circumvent democracy or rule of law. THIS was what I responded to. I guess you forgot about the above message from you?
Let's see if we can try again to deal with this SHEER IDIOCY, shall we?
What you see here is a clear exhibition of someone so caught up in various half-assed spiritual and tech cults that they can't recognize that their ideas are -- to put it charitably -- "alternative".
They imagine they are "the norm" and "standard" and "OK" and the rest of us are hopelessly mired in FUD -- Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.
Challenging tech cults isn't "demonizing" -- it's challenging tech cults that need to be challenged, like you'd challenge Scientology (which tech cults often themselves love to demonize, and understandably so) or challenge Moonies or challenge the Catholic Church because you don't like their beliefs about gays. (My answer to that is: go over to the Episcopalian Church then. They allow gays, they even have gay priests and they have a very similar liturgy. Instead of demanding that a mainstream religion change to your alternative views, go to the alternative).
YOU challenge things all the time, and sorry, YOU and YOUR BELIEFS will be challenged right back.
On this question, I'll repeat what I wrote to this sorry individual inworld which I already put in a blog post here:
[2018/02/26 20:48] Prokofy Neva: Hi, I didn't realize you were such a tech cultist, good Lord. Now here's what you have to read: https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/418728-encroachment-on-robin-loop/
[2018/02/26 20:48] Second Life: User not online - message will be stored and delivered later.
[2018/02/26 20:49] Prokofy Neva: the person in that thread is named "animats" -- he's a total asshole -- oh, unless you think rape RP is fine, you may, I don't know, tech cultism often goes together with those extremities of depravity as well. Well, I don't want it on my lawn, dear : )
[2018/02/26 20:49] Second Life: User not online - message will be stored and delivered later.
[2018/02/26 20:50] Prokofy Neva: you also have to see how insanely wrong and crazy the Lindens are here - the road isn't repaired, it was never my fault, my customers are struggling now, animats is a total freaking asshole, get a grip Luna, I thought you were better than this http://3dblogger.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2018/02/a-linden-injustice-robin-loop-road.html
[2018/02/26 20:50] Second Life: User not online - message will be stored and delivered later.
OH, UNLESS YOU THINK RAPE RP IS FINE, YOU MAY, I DON'T KNOW, TECH CULTISM OFTEN GOES TOGETHER WITH THOSE EXTREMITIES OF DEPRAVITY AS WELL.
This statement doesn't accuse Luna Bliss of "extremities of depravity" -- it has the all important article "unless". This is like "if...then" in code, you know.
So one more time:
LUNA BLISS, DO YOU THINK RAPE RP IS FINE, YES OR NO?
YES OR NO, LUNA BLISS, STAY FOCUSED
IS RAPE RP FINE WITH YOU? ANSWER THE QUESTION, YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED IT YET, YES OR NOT.
So let's explain once again that Rape RP is among the worst form of BDSM in SL and is legal in adult areas as a public club -- on the theory that BDSM itself is legal, so why not?
Both are to be condemned, but as I've noted before, one can posit a tolerance of BDSM as a personal choice in the privacy of one's sex life, in one's home. That privacy and individual space could in theory be posited in a liberal democratic state as a necessity for freedom.
But what happens with this cult is that they are always and everywhere trying to push outwards into the public arena to normalize themselves and undermine the legitimate rejection of their cult.
Under U.S. law and EU law, "consent" is not recognized as an exoneration from the charge of assault. God knows, the BDSM cultists and edge-casers who like to be contrarian tried to push this with an appeal of a case, I believe it was from Germany at the European Court of Human Rights, but it FAILED.
Read the law -- "consent is not a defense when assault is the offense".
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 5 states that, “No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.” And that stands. You don't suborn it as a BDSM cultist by invoking "consent".
That's because actual bodily harm stands as an actuality and proof that "consent" doesn't diminish in law -- and in common sense and reality! -- and the mental assault of BDSM that might get a pass may be challenged as well if the court has reason to consider that the consent is a sham.
Note the actual real-life jurisprudence:
The criminalization of sadomasochistic behavior in R v. Brown was affirmed by the European Court of Human Rights when Brown was considered at the supranational level as Laskey, Jaggard and Brown v United Kingdom (1997). In the decision, the European Court of Human Rights held that the state unquestionably was entitled to regulate through criminal law the infliction of physical harm and the Court was not persuaded that the applicants' behavior belonged to the private morality sphere and therefore excluded from State intervention.
So consent is not recognized. We who watch all these machinations also don't find the invocation of "consent" very trustworthy in the virtual context where it can try to get a blessing as "lifestyle" or "roleplay". There are too many cases "gone wrong". Too many calls to the police of cases in RL of desperate people. Too many "sub support groups" in SL. Too many abuse reports. Too many everythings. Too often, the person espousing BDSM as a sub has a history of sexual molestation and domestic violence. The idealogues are always trying to erase these facts.
Even so, in the SL context, as I said, one tends to concede the privacy of the bedroom as an element of the individual's freedom -- but it's on shaky ground, especially as the BDSM practitioner himself often wants to push out into taking over the public sphere -- or anywhere else he can get on a sim. That's why the sub always has to have a notice on her profile that if anyone has any "problems" with her they have to take it up with her dom -- drawing EVERYBODY into the drama that way.
So to return to the public roads of the Mainland:
The reality is, somebody trying to slyly introduce more widespread use of the RLV third-party BDSM viewer that enables you to restrain people and do other BDSM actions is merely an ideologues's efforts to normalize the cult. That's what's underlying this ideological subterfuge and sabotage. It's not accident, comrades that my Flamingo Court Motel was chosen as a venue to start this campaigh with a provocation that the provocateur would know could ensure him maximum publicity -- and maximum punishment of me on the forums and with a 3-day ban. I truly don't care. It's very instructive to let these things play out in a virtual context so that you see what really goes on -- provocateurs with oppressive ideologies use the AR system and the forums try to subvert norms and impose their reign with the RLV viewer, even, by wacking at high profile individuals and pretending to be "helpful". This active measures agent has also made sure to have an "Excellent" on his forums avatar which he get by making various seemingly "benign" posts and likes and getting others' likes. It's such a transparently manipulative game that one scarcely needs to comment.
There is absolutely no reason to bless this. Even the crazy Klytyna who is always ranting about the Madlands (the Mainland) says the Lindens will never go for a "kludge" -- a crappy workaround of sim seam "problems" -- involving using restraint from the RLV viewer in some fashion AND a channel which as EVEN Klytyna notes will be exploited by social misfits, i.e. griefers. This isn't rocket science.
That loony Luna keeps thinking it is rocket science, science that we should "bless" and not be afraid of is only more stark evidence of how deep in the cult she is. Once again, Luna Bliss:
ARE YOU OR ARE YOU NOT FOR RAPE RP, YES OR NO.
I think the Lindens would be within their rights to ban it as a public club or site that has mazes or some kind of build to enact these creepy fantasies out is no longer a private matter inside the home. Of course, the Lindens don't have a concept of "a reasonable expectation of privacy". They think it's fine to allow spam cars on the public roads that can go in your house or lawn. They have sometimes been known if they get a hostile AR from your enemy to go inside a PG house and remove some classic work of art that involves a nude. They're crazy that way, too. It's always about literalism and enabling your enemies -- especially if those enemies are the Lindens' friends.
I also think it's wrong to parade chained human beings at public events. It's because then WE are forced to join in, in this oppression of this other human being. We're supposed to buy the line that she has consented to it (it's usually a woman, but it can sometimes be a man). Well, we don't buy it? It's a backlash against feminism and the progress of women's rights in Western civilization. It is a cult filled with lies that starts with the claim of consent, which has so many red flags around it, and keeps going through the notion that the greatest form of love is to turn yourself into a slave obeying the commands of a narcissistic. It's a perversion of the love taught by the world's great religions which has to do with self-sacrifice, but not oppression, with "doing unto others as you would have them do unto you" -- empathy -- which is really quite different than the oppressive fuck-you hedony of "an it harm none, do what ye will" -- because narcissists aren't the best judge of what is harm, you know? Ever. Certainly the hugely devious and depraved Alistair Crowley wasn't, if you read his sordid history. What did he leave behind but a lot of broken lives, and a lot of recipes for assholes in the future to break other people's lives? Nothing good.
Calling out the oppressive nature of the BDSM cult and the Rape RP cult isn't "demonization" or "not recognizing people's rights" because they don't have rights to impose this on others and even make it part of their fake shtick that they don't. But of course they do -- the BDSM personality in SL is always stamping his foot and demanding instant service and gas-lighting and pulling the football away from other people, whether they are store clerks or rentals agents. We've all seen it and of course this kind of person finds it impossible to go "out of character".
And once again, Luna Bliss, she of the Bible-reading and Ashram living and other supposedly "peaceful and benign" activities that seque into her tech cults is free to comment:
ARE YOU OR ARE YOU NOT FOR BDSM IMPOSITION ON THE PUBLIC SPHERE, YES OR NO?
ARE YOU OR ARE YOU NOT FOR RAPE RP YES OR NO?
ARE YOU OR ARE YOU NOT FOR USING RLV AS A 'WORKAROUND' TO THE SUPPOSED 'PROBLEM' OF SIM SEAMS? YES OR NO.
So let's look at the rest of this nonsense:
When I spoke of animats related to artificial intelligence I was referring to nanobiotechnology, and I asked you to look the word 'animats' up for a clearer understanding. This refers to the way 'tiny robots' could help us medically in the future, and is a very exciting field.
Actually, um, no. Anyone can go and look up animats -- I have -- and see there is DEBATE around it as there is on any artificial intelligence. I think it's no accident that the Kremlin, which represents one of the most aggressive and oppressive forces on earth, has put a lot of investment into this field as they hope to use it control people and things. Technology does have the engineers' ideologies welded into it in troublesome ways -- the lack of a "dislike" button on Facebook is one obvious example -- but technology is also wielded by coders and techs who want power over other human beings and whose ethics are lacking and skewed, to say the least. They are not regulated in a liberal democratic society and should be.
The animats field IS NOT in fact bout nanobiotechnology, that's only one sub-set of it.
Some cultists think that it's fine to have tiny robots injected in your skin and bloodstreams. I don't, and find this field totally unchallenged and unregulated and also PS not implemented but that's not an excuse to act against it.
I remember Sidewinder Linden, a Linden with cult technologies as I discovered, kept arguing strenously for nanobots, saying, why, we allow medicines into our bloodstreams, and look, they have time release mechanisms and so on and how are nanobots different?
That's surely a specious argument, as chemicals aren't coded. They are elements with properties, or mixtures of elements, with known properties. BTW not all their side effects are always known
Chemicals which are a limited substance are not at all the same as coded chips or coded anything. Code depends on the will of the coder, and one shouldn't pretend this isn't in the equation. The coder or programmer can also change the action of nanobots in a hostile way.
We already see how terribly infested the Internet and computers are with hackers who spread spam, bugs, malicious code, and cause trillions of dollars of damage. This article just talking about some of the Russian hacking gives you an idea of how vast this damage is, and how much it affects lives. The malice of hackers is enabled in several ways -- by the same kind of thinker and persona being on the other side of the firewall as the computer security person whose ideology is often no different, and who tends to blame poor security rather than the malice of hackers for problems -- the inverse of the rule of law as it has been established for ages. The coder and hacker do not recognize any rule of law over THEMSELVES.
"Mathematics makes the state obsolete," sneers Andrea Shepherd of Tor, a former Linden. That about sums up the sheer lawlessness of the crypto-anarchist and their total indifference to others and their privileging of their own whims as the authoritarianism by which we must rule. PS Andrea savaged another Twitter user who *rightly* criticized her arrogant bullshit and Tor's abusiveness by mocking her on Twitter and blatantly mischaracterized his satirization of her as "sexism" and "misogyny". This fellow, whose name was Gerasimov spelled in a l33t sort of way once kidded, "Go to the Washington Monument and jump, Andrea, Tor will save you." This was a reference to the Biblical temptation of Satan to Christ, who said "the angels will save you lest you dash your foot against a stone," telling Jesus to jump off a tower to prove He was God. But Jesus did not need to prove this, nor at Satan's bidding.
Andrea then proceeded in good Second Life fashion to ruin this guy's life, hunting him down, finding his real name, emailing his bosses, and getting him to resign from his job and leave Twitter. What a total asshole is Andrea! THIS is the totalitarianism we live under from the code-as-law crew. No thanks.
Unlike doctors and lawyers -- professions that have board certification, societies, and ethics charters -- computer programmers have NOTHING. Their societies for "responsibility" or "ethics" in fact aren't about the ethics of THEIR OWN FIELD but about how to wield tech in some politicized aim elsewhere, against others.
So I totally get it that Luna Bliss may think nanobots are the saviour of humankind, and perhaps she has some urgent case of her own relative (she has written about her daughter on a card on her sim) where she thinks this might work. That doesn't mean that the rest of us can't criticize technology and be highly skeptical of the ethics of those we already see are hugely problematic -- like Musk and Thiel.
There's more in this vein:
Instead, you lumped me in with some sort of technocommunism ideas of yours by accusing me of being part of some kind of techno-cult, and I received the following message from you, which you failed to mention here in your blog: " Prokofy Neva: Coming into a thread about finding facts regarding griefers, and spouting your theories, which I don't support at all as they are fascistic, is a form of harassment itself. It's not about you "disagreeing with my ideas." It's about harassment with your theories that only support griefing in the end, in a thread seeking ways to curb them. So I saw what you did there. It's not merely a derail. It's a form of harassment with ideas that you seek because you imagine they give you power or your group power or some cult power but they are abusive to others. You have not been democratically elected in a liberal democracy under the rule of law to provide your "help" on "AI"."
Luna implies here that I've insulted her but it's her tech cult ideas that are the insult. Her constant heckling of me in the thread in which I'm trying to stop griefing by Woodbuy alts masquerading as my "bot" and spouting racist nonsense is simply creepy. She never condemns the Woodbury griefers. She also lacks total curiousness and empathy about how to stop this form of griefing by stopping conference calls -- something that many people want. Indeed, this feature is available on Firestorm, which Luna no doubt uses like many do. She can't explain, like others boosting Firestorm -- which she likely does as well -- why, if you CAN turn off the conference calls, hundreds of angry people harass me with claims I've spammed them. Wouldn't they shut it down after one spam and call it a day? Either they do NOT have Firestorm or hey, this is not enough. People should have the right NEVER to be conferenced. EVER. Opt-out FOREVER. What stops Luna Bliss from accepting that? Her tech cultism?
Luna is spouting sheer nonsense about me needing to take LSD -- as if that removes griefing -- and then even admitting herself that she is derailing the thread. She's merely word-salading now.
Basically, you are saying here that I'm an abuser...a facist, a harasser, supporting griefing, part of some sick cult, trying to circumvent democracy or rule of law. THIS was what I responded to. I guess you forgot about the above message from you?
Um, no, Luna Bliss, I didn't "forget" this post but I stand TOTALLY by my remarks which indeed were the proper pushback and self-defense to your weird culty heckling. If you find "the shoe fits," ask yourself if it really does?
Go back and look at your BEHAVIOR in this thread -- heckling, ridicule, stupidity, culty nonsense, with no recognition of the actual problem at hand, and no empathy for it. Note: NO EMPATHY. Because -- tech cult.
Why are you excusing griefers? You never once condemn them in this thread.
Why are you heckling me during a perfectly reasonable and normal effort to stop conference call spamming which most people don't want even if it doesn't involve griefers impersonating me with racist Trumpkin sayings.
You haven't supplied any use case for the need to spam everyone on a sim. Why are you morally blind to the problem of spam in conference calls?
Do you think just because a coder "can" and just because code "is" that we must argue backward to acceptance? Why? You likely don't feel that way about guns or the atom bomb.
THAT is the problem. You're silent on this question because evidently -- and prove me wrong here -- your tech cultism means that you must "excuse" every exploit and "allow" every coded thing. Well?
YES OR NO, LUNA BLISS, ARE YOU FOR CONFERENCE CALL SPAMMING OR NOT? YES OR NO.
In fact, sick tech cults do circumvent democracy and the rule of law. You're unable to invoke any actual normal real-life notions of restraint, choice, moderation. In short, a tech cultist.
But I've broken down the two questions here that you can answer in the negative IF you are not a cultist. So go ahead, I'll wait.
LUNA BLISS, ARE YOU FOR CONFERENCE CALL SPAMMING OR NOT? YES OR NO?
LUNA BLISS, ARE YOU FOR RAPE RP YES OR NO?
Instead of spouting about nanobots and demanding that I expand my mind by taking LSD, answer those questions.
PS
So I log in after my completely unnecessary and unjust 3-day ban from the Lindens to find this message:
(Saved Tue Feb 27 15:36:02 2018)Hi :) I'm not a tech-cultist, but I'm discovering new ways technology could be used to benefit our consciousness, our spirituality. I don't have a firm enough grasp of it all to explain well just yet -- it's a lot to take in. I do understand the dangers that go with this though, and careful attention must be given along the way. With great power comes something great or horrible depending on what we do with it. Luna Bliss Virtual World Designer
[14:39] Luna Bliss: (Saved Tue Feb 27 15:40:01 2018)I think you're imagining that I condone all these punks that harass you, and I certainly do not. My comments on the forum related to your reference to organic law, and I'm very interested in artificial intelligence atm. I guess I took the thread on a kind of derail, but I'm just so enthused about what I'm learning (how technology could help us in the future with AI) that I could not help it ;0 Luna Bliss Virtual World Designer
So again, um, yeah, that's why I wrote my post about griefers exploiting the friendship consent function of calling cards? As none of us consented to have griefer bots as friends spamming us. Derp!
And yet Luna had to come in to the thread and heckle, go off topic, ridicule and introduce all kinds of BULLSHIT simply because she COULD NOT BEAR that her tech cults were being criticized.
And rightly so.
And I'll go on doing that because in fact I have no demonstration that Luna "Bliss" has any awareness of the harmfulness of tech, if she can't even tolerate a thread on spam from bots.
I'm not enthused by artificially intelligence or the intelligent artifice that promotes it from coders who are the ones who really take power with it. Seeing their ethics-free behavior and appalling destructiveness and oppression in the last 20 year that I've been writing on this topic, I have no reason whatsoever to get all dewey-eyed and girlish and sigh about the wonders of tech.
Luna Bliss cannot stay focused and off drugs or off the high of tech cultism long enough to answer to specific questions. I may never get answers. Or I will get answers but with some lecture. Or answers with a caveat. At this point, I have little faith in the tech cultist of having self-awareness. Bye!
